Author Topic: Backup Cameras are Now Required in all New Cars  (Read 868 times)

Offline Jason Harvestdancer

Re: Backup Cameras are Now Required in all New Cars
« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2018, 12:03:36 PM »
I think this is stupid.

With all the multitudinous safety features, we are getting to the point where the one thing you don't need to drive is any sort of skill behind the wheel.  Now here's why people put up with this sort of nonsense when they shouldn't.

How much does this new system cost?  Not that much?  How many other safety systems are now installed?  Not that much each, but cumulative?  It starts adding up, doesn't it?  Modern cars are so loaded with safety features that the cost has gone way up and the only reason people don't notice is that car finance loans have extended from two years all the way to seven years.

Modern cars are struggling to do two things - be safer than ever, and be more fuel efficient than ever.  These goals are actually contradictory and only some really good engineering has been able to meet the mandates.  If we used the fuel efficiency tools that we have now on a car from 1980 we'd be getting over 50 mpg on a standard family car right now.

Also all these systems have to be maintained.  A simple fender bender (with what is no longer a bumper) can trigger the 5+ airbags, which must be replaced in order for the car to be considered fixed.  At least $300 per airbag, usually more.  The insurance company sees a perfectly driveable car but a large repair bill for the airbags and the crack in the fender, and sees that the airbags are worth more than the depreciated value of the car and calls it totaled.

If these rear view cameras are mandated, the one thing you cannot do is say "I don't want that in my car."  Someone else decided you wanted it whether you wanted it or not.
Watch my fanfilm
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Film the sequel
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Re: Backup Cameras are Now Required in all New Cars
« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2018, 12:14:26 PM »
Similar arguments for seat belts, etc., on record.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Re: Backup Cameras are Now Required in all New Cars
« Reply #17 on: September 01, 2018, 12:16:19 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Its going to make vehicles more expensive by forcing people to pay for something they don't want.
Yeah!---Like seat belts and wipers, and horns, and stupid shit like that !!
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Online Shiranu

Re: Backup Cameras are Now Required in all New Cars
« Reply #18 on: September 01, 2018, 12:19:36 PM »
Quote
I think this is stupid.

Shocking.

Tbh though, I am not a fan of mandatory electronics in cars because of the massive expense in getting them replaced or fixed as well as the fact that car makers (particularly Americans, but Germans are getting bad about it to) are making cars to be replaceable, short-term products rather than a 10+ year investment and thus skimping on the quality of the parts.

In most civilized countries, this is not as huge of issue thanks to a working public transportation system and much smaller distances between point A and B leading to lower car ownership. As an American however, literally everyone needs a car to do anything (unless you live in a few cities up in New England) thanks to our non-existent public transportation and the massive amounts of distances we have to cover. Rising car prices (and lower quality cars) means that a necessity (almost like healthcare) becomes more and more a burden for the lower and middle class to afford, or even worse means we will go further and further into debt over.

I think the first thing we should make mandatory is finding ways for car companies to both increase the durability of their products while keeping them affordable, then worry about things that will start making car prices increase.
I've Got Love, Fuck Your Money.

Don't feed the douche-trolls.

Online Shiranu

Re: Backup Cameras are Now Required in all New Cars
« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2018, 12:26:36 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Yeah!---Like seat belts and wipers, and horns, and stupid shit like that !!

There is a large difference between a seat belt or horn, which are relatively simple pieces of mechanical systems and basic electronics, versus rear-view cameras that are integrated into a universal computer system that is responsible for everything from the camera to traction control to ignition to...

Cars are becoming far less about mechanics and more and more about integrated electronics, and that is going to be inherently more expensive.  And one one thing goes wrong, it's reaching a point where the entire system has to be replaced, and that is incredibly expensive.

Median car prices (post-inflation) are rising far faster than median income. That is an issue not just for new cars but for "older' cars as well... you have to take out larger and larger loans just to get even a moderately used car, and taking out loans that can be 10, 15, 20, 25% to afford it.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login


There is an absolutely brilliant video on why electronics have been a major problem for car costs, but I cant find it now to save my life. If I do I'll be sure to post it here. It really changed my mind on cars a year or two ago, and since then I have not been a fan of advanced electronics in cars, much less mandatory advanced electronics.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2018, 12:28:18 PM by Shiranu »
I've Got Love, Fuck Your Money.

Don't feed the douche-trolls.

Re: Backup Cameras are Now Required in all New Cars
« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2018, 12:32:28 PM »
"Yeah, but...!"
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Online Shiranu

Re: Backup Cameras are Now Required in all New Cars
« Reply #21 on: September 01, 2018, 12:50:12 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
"Yeah, but...!"

Elaborate.
I've Got Love, Fuck Your Money.

Don't feed the douche-trolls.

Offline _Xenu_

Re: Backup Cameras are Now Required in all New Cars
« Reply #22 on: September 01, 2018, 12:52:30 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Yeah!---Like seat belts and wipers, and horns, and stupid shit like that !!
Well, in all fairness, you are talking to a guy with a manual transmission and roll up windows. This is by design to reduce repair costs. A seat belt costs virtually nothing, horns I have no idea but I would want one anyway.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2018, 02:55:17 PM by _Xenu_ »
Click this link once a day to feed shelter animals. Its free.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Online Shiranu

Re: Backup Cameras are Now Required in all New Cars
« Reply #23 on: September 01, 2018, 12:55:57 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Well, it all fairness, you are talking to a guy with a manual transmission and roll up windows. This is by design to reduce repair costs. A seat belt costs virtually nothing, horns I have no idea but I would want one anyway.

Same. Stick shift, no electric locks, minimal electronic driving assistance, etc. ... these things saved me several thousand dollars on the car by themselves when I bought it, and I don't have to worry about fixing things my car doesn't even have.


Comparing rudimentary tech like seatbelts to electronica that are integrated into a master computer that is responsible for not just safety but also things like traction control, engine ignition and operation, suspension, etc. Is like comparing chalk to carrots.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2018, 01:02:23 PM by Shiranu »
I've Got Love, Fuck Your Money.

Don't feed the douche-trolls.

Offline _Xenu_

Re: Backup Cameras are Now Required in all New Cars
« Reply #24 on: September 01, 2018, 12:57:02 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Same. Stick shift, no electric locks, minimal electronic driving assistance, etc. ... these things saved me several thousand dollars on the car by themselves when I bought it, and I don't have to worry about fixing things my car doesn't even have.
That's exactly how I see it. Adding more features is just more stuff that can break and cost me money. My F150 looks very nice on the outside, solid black paint job with chrome package, but inside its very bare bones.
Click this link once a day to feed shelter animals. Its free.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Offline SGOS

Re: Backup Cameras are Now Required in all New Cars
« Reply #25 on: September 01, 2018, 12:58:01 PM »
Another feature I like on both my cars is the blind spot alarm.  Even better is the cross track alarm.  I'd like to think I'd avoid a cross track accident without it, and I probably would.  But backing out of a parking space between two other cars, the alarm goes off before I'm out far enough to see past the cars on either side of me.  I'd probably see the cross track vehicle in time, although some are coming very fast.  I like the advanced notice.  Same for the blind spot alarm.

The one feature I don't like is lane warning.  I drive a lot of narrow rural curved roads, which puts me close to the center line and the side lines at the same time.  That one was always going off, even when I'm not on a line.  I keep that one turned off.  Sometimes I turn it on when I'm on a main highway, but usually I forget.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2018, 01:18:54 PM by SGOS »

Re: Backup Cameras are Now Required in all New Cars
« Reply #26 on: September 01, 2018, 01:09:20 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Elaborate.
"Yeah...but I still don't like it!"
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Offline SGOS

Re: Backup Cameras are Now Required in all New Cars
« Reply #27 on: September 01, 2018, 01:16:41 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
car makers (particularly Americans, but Germans are getting bad about it to) are making cars to be replaceable, short-term products rather than a 10+ year investment and thus skimping on the quality of the parts.
Since I retired 20 years ago, I've only bought two new cars, and that was recently.  So I haven't had much experience with the latest cars wearing out.  But I do remember American cars pre 1980.  I would trade them in around 70,000 miles because it was nothing but headache after headache beyond that point.  That Japanese started building longer lasting vehicles, and eventually American cars caught up.  Now I expect a car to last 200,000 miles, although the only one I ever drove past that was  a Toyota pickup that I sold at 225,000 miles.  I had replaced a timing belt, but I don't think there were any other problems.  I had trundled around 200 loads of firewood down long mountain roads along with the usual work I bought it for, and it still had the original brakes, but it was a manual transmission so I didn't have to use the brakes much.

Cars seem better than ever to me, but I have little knowledge as to what's happened in the last 5 years to quality.  And I used to wonder if building longer lasting cars had hurt the auto industry.  Building things that last is not the corporate norm, but if one manufacturer does like the Japanese did at one time, the others are forced to keep up.

Offline SGOS

Re: Backup Cameras are Now Required in all New Cars
« Reply #28 on: September 01, 2018, 01:23:06 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Well, it all fairness, you are talking to a guy with a manual transmission and roll up windows. This is by design to reduce repair costs. A seat belt costs virtually nothing, horns I have no idea but I would want one anyway.
That's the way have been most of my life, and quite religious about it.  I still drive a manual, but that's just for the pleasure of it.  But some of the new innovations seem worth having.  Not all of them of course.

Re: Backup Cameras are Now Required in all New Cars
« Reply #29 on: September 01, 2018, 01:50:23 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

 

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk