Author Topic: Communism in China had to restore Confucianism ...  (Read 697 times)

Offline Baruch

Communism in China had to restore Confucianism ...
« on: August 30, 2018, 01:06:35 PM »
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Relying on family and tradition, has its virtues.  Anti-social individualism and anti-cultural relativism fails.

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luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Baruch

Re: Communism in China had to restore Confucianism ...
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2018, 04:20:35 PM »
I think appreciate Confucius a lot, because he valued tradition in regard to society and politics.  But I like Lao Tzu and Chuang Tzu a lot too.
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Shiranu

Re: Communism in China had to restore Confucianism ...
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2018, 06:21:24 PM »
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Relying on family and tradition, has its virtues.  Anti-social individualism and anti-cultural relativism fails.



I'm going to watch it, but I have to admit... after watching her bit on the Spartans, I am a bit dubious of how much Eastern culture she actually knows about.

I mean for god's sake, she literally starts off the Spartan episode by talking about how if it wasn't for them and their allies, the Greeks would have been slaves to the Persians... who made slavery illegal within their empire. The Spartans (and Athenians) on the other-hand had the majority of their population as slaves.
"Judge a moth by the beauty of its candle." - Rumi

Offline Baruch

Re: Communism in China had to restore Confucianism ...
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2018, 01:21:04 AM »
Contradiction within Western culture, then and now.  We just have more sophisticated slavery.  But this is in the POV of Greek chauvinism.  Only Greeks are free (if they aren't slaves that is), because barbarians are inherently servile (so the view was back then).

So why pick on the presenter?  A lot of other people are quoted in this particular video, and the one on the Buddha.  The Greeks and Socrates are her speciality.
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Cavebear

Re: Communism in China had to restore Confucianism ...
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2018, 07:26:07 AM »
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I'm going to watch it, but I have to admit... after watching her bit on the Spartans, I am a bit dubious of how much Eastern culture she actually knows about.

I mean for god's sake, she literally starts off the Spartan episode by talking about how if it wasn't for them and their allies, the Greeks would have been slaves to the Persians... who made slavery illegal within their empire. The Spartans (and Athenians) on the other-hand had the majority of their population as slaves.

I DO hate it when actors participate in making really evil people look good.  Like Spartans.  Lets have a movie about Hitler handing out candy next...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: Communism in China had to restore Confucianism ...
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2018, 01:11:03 PM »
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I DO hate it when actors participate in making really evil people look good.  Like Spartans.  Lets have a movie about Hitler handing out candy next...

Bigot!  This is USA!

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How much does Xerxes pay you to post here?

In regard to memes you don't approve of ...

Molon labe!

Athenian welcoming committee ...

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Barbaroi are good targets.

And 10 years earlier, the Athenians defeated Persia all by themselves at Marathon.

This Overdramatization ... is the origin of Western Army and Navy.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2018, 01:19:42 PM by Baruch »
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luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Baruch

Re: Communism in China had to restore Confucianism ...
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2018, 07:43:49 PM »
Here is what a Greek warrior prays ...

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luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Shiranu

Re: Communism in China had to restore Confucianism ...
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2018, 08:08:35 PM »
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I DO hate it when actors participate in making really evil people look good.  Like Spartans.  Lets have a movie about Hitler handing out candy next...

I'm all for admiring the Spartans, but that admiration can never override the fact that they were the bad guys... like, the actual, real life, super villain level of bad guys.
"Judge a moth by the beauty of its candle." - Rumi

Offline Baruch

Re: Communism in China had to restore Confucianism ...
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2018, 08:37:11 PM »
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I'm all for admiring the Spartans, but that admiration can never override the fact that they were the bad guys... like, the actual, real life, super villain level of bad guys.

The Athenians weren't Gandhi ... they were evil White men too.

Here are the Spartans Cavebear, Shiranu and Munch can all agree on ...

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For the other side of the gender preference equation ...

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Spartans were mandatory bi-sexuals.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2018, 08:47:30 PM by Baruch »
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luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Shiranu

Re: Communism in China had to restore Confucianism ...
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2018, 08:45:59 PM »
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The Athenians weren't Gandhi ... they were evil White men too.

Already said that.

Hell, look at our auction houses for slaves here in the South... there is a reason many are done in a neo-Greco style, and that's because several of the really impressive remaining Greek ruins were slave auction houses themselves.

The Greeks were, really, some of the worst of the bad guys in history... and pretty much all of Western culture is built on that. That's not to say they didn't have good aspects as well... but the world really would have been better off if the Persians had wiped the Athenians, the Spartans, Corinthians, etc. from the face of the Earth.

And yes, it's easy to say, "Well Shiranu, everyone was bad back then!" but... were they, really? Were they comparable? I would argue that an empire that has abolished slavery, has unity within it's borders, who has religious freedoms granted to minorities within it's borders, has a well-functioning bureaucracy, that treated women as human beings is markedly better than what the Greeks were doing at the same time, when you had city states that had over 70% of their population enslaved, that were constantly at war with one another, and didn't view women as human beings (places like Sparta aside).

It's one thing to admire and appreciate the good that came out of the Greek world, but particularly before the 1900s the idolization of everything Greco (and Roman) arguably pushed civilization back far more than the good things propelled it forward.
"Judge a moth by the beauty of its candle." - Rumi

Offline Baruch

Re: Communism in China had to restore Confucianism ...
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2018, 08:56:13 PM »
Said by a son of Xerxes perhaps?  Bias much?  See this is why we shouldn't let foreigners intermarry with Europeans?  They produces children with conflicted loyalties?

BTW - I like Persians just fine.  I just don't care for bias.

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πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Shiranu

Re: Communism in China had to restore Confucianism ...
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2018, 08:57:35 PM »
Quote
Said by a son of Xerxes perhaps?  Bias much?

Said by Greeks of the Persians, and Greeks of... well, the Greeks.
"Judge a moth by the beauty of its candle." - Rumi

Offline Baruch

Re: Communism in China had to restore Confucianism ...
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2018, 08:58:33 PM »
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Said by Greeks of the Persians, and Greeks of... well, the Greeks.

Notice the drift off of the OP?

Are you simply against murderers, as long as they are European?
« Last Edit: September 19, 2018, 09:08:59 PM by Baruch »
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Shiranu

Re: Communism in China had to restore Confucianism ...
« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2018, 09:19:59 PM »
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Notice the drift off of the OP?

Are you simply against murderers, as long as they are European?

I'm against idolizing all of the past while ignoring (or glorifying) the sins of it. As someone from a European country (in terms of who dominated it), my obvious focus will be on it happening in my culture.

But I am against China's treatment of it's vassals, with the obvious examples being Tibet, Hong Kong and to an extent Taiwan, or the violence they have perpetuated across South Asia because of their belief they are superiour, with that superiourity generally falling along racial lines. I am opposed to how Arabs treat/treated their conquered territories, and would be opposed to Japanese people glorifying many of the violent aspects of their Imperial days.

It's one thing to be entertained by a violent history, and perhaps even that is slightly problematic, but it's another when your modern culture is based on these people and you aren't allowed to question it otherwise you "hate your own race".

I fucking love my European ancestry, but I don't let my love of what they did right blind me to the fact that they committed some truly horrible acts. Just because they created the Vatican and all it's beauty doesn't mean I cant criticise the Vatican for covering sexual abuse. Just because I love the German tradition of music and operas doesn't mean I cant hate Hitler.

I'm so sick of this idea that pointing out flaws means you hate something; point at sexism, you hate men. Point out racism, you hate white people. Point out wealth inequality, you hate the rich.

Maybe, just maybe, I like things that are good and hate things that are bad. Unless you view men, white people, heterosexuals, whatever as a homogeneous group and one dimensional, then there is absolutely no reason to think pointing out one flaw means you hate the entire being.

Then again, the people who accuse me of that are the same people who apparently think all feminists, "leftists" and Muslims are one entity... so maybe in their world view, it makes perfect sense to them. Which is really sad when you think about it, because that is such a delusional and narrow world view to hold.
"Judge a moth by the beauty of its candle." - Rumi

Offline Baruch

Re: Communism in China had to restore Confucianism ...
« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2018, 09:35:31 PM »
History is problematic, but that is as it is.  I don't idolize either, I find humanity very ... disturbing.  Usually moving out of idolizing is a normal development as we move into adulthood.

Did you know that the character names for Chinese ethnic groups is insulting?  I think they call Japan a dwarf kingdom and Korea a midget kingdom.  But is size everything?  That is what the many millions of Chinese women are thinking right now ;-))

Questioning is good, but will you settle eventually with real people warts an all, or hide in a scifi utopia?  This is a struggle I am still struggling with myself.  On the other hand, expect as you question the status quo, the status quo will hit back.  You can't spar with shadows.
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luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

 

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