Author Topic: Modern Biblical Archeology - the Philistines  (Read 217 times)

Offline Baruch

Modern Biblical Archeology - the Philistines
« on: August 30, 2018, 12:22:56 AM »
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What the evidence shows, and how the Bible displays folk memories of past events, that we can untangle with archeology ...

Gath settled at the same time when the tribal Israelites settle down in the West Bank (mountainous area)
Gath destroyed by King Hazel of Damascus
Gath destroyed by earthquake
Gath destroyed by King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon, population deported.

And by rhetoric, the Judeans were frenemies with the Philistines, and the Bible included rhetoric that isn't in the physical record.

It would appear that the people of Gath were from Lydia, in W Anatolia, where goddess worship continued to be prevalent thru Roman times.
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Offline Shiranu

Re: Modern Biblical Archeology - the Philistines
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2018, 12:46:28 AM »
The more I have studied stories like the Iliad or the Odyssey and their relation to archaeological finds, the more I find that texts like the Torah/Old Testament and other folk lore have extremely valuable information within them.

The problem is that unlike the Odyssey and Iliad, people to this day hold these text to be divine, literal words (or alternatively, absolute garbage with no value) and it clouds what useful information could still be pried out of them. The same can be said of some of the Vedic works which likely tell very true stories but just heavily flourished and later mystified. There is likely some very useful historical truth to be found in these texts but it's buried under the "divine".
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Offline Baruch

Re: Modern Biblical Archeology - the Philistines
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2018, 05:15:04 AM »
The Illiad and Odyssey, were originally elite entertainment.  The rabble would have only heard them later second hand.  This is how much of the Bible was created too ... particularly Samuel and Kings.
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Offline Cavebear

Re: Modern Biblical Archeology - the Philistines
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2018, 01:14:52 PM »
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The more I have studied stories like the Iliad or the Odyssey and their relation to archaeological finds, the more I find that texts like the Torah/Old Testament and other folk lore have extremely valuable information within them.

The problem is that unlike the Odyssey and Iliad, people to this day hold these text to be divine, literal words (or alternatively, absolute garbage with no value) and it clouds what useful information could still be pried out of them. The same can be said of some of the Vedic works which likely tell very true stories but just heavily flourished and later mystified. There is likely some very useful historical truth to be found in these texts but it's buried under the "divine".

I often assume (and rightly, I think) that old stories had truth in them.  But the religious connections mostly don't make much sense.  There may have been a local flood of the Black Sea, for example, but not because of a god-driven flood. 
« Last Edit: September 15, 2018, 01:20:49 PM by Cavebear »
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Offline aitm

Re: Modern Biblical Archeology - the Philistines
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2018, 01:25:12 PM »
Floods are pretty well worldwide(other than the obvious). Tornadoes, not so much. So floods find an easy niche in religion as most people have real encounters with them or direct affected by them.

Ole God loves the rainbow as his "symbol of ....whatever the fuck it was... but if the old hacks what wrote the babble had ever seen the Aurora Borealis why, the wimpy rainbow wouldn't have made the first cut.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Offline Cavebear

Re: Modern Biblical Archeology - the Philistines
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2018, 01:33:52 PM »
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Floods are pretty well worldwide(other than the obvious). Tornadoes, not so much. So floods find an easy niche in religion as most people have real encounters with them or direct affected by them.

Ole God loves the rainbow as his "symbol of ....whatever the fuck it was... but if the old hacks what wrote the babble had ever seen the Aurora Borealis why, the wimpy rainbow wouldn't have made the first cut.

Well, exactly.  There are local floods and bad weathers.  I notice few peoples who live inland have flood myths.  But if there was a world-wide flood, everyone would have the same myth.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: Modern Biblical Archeology - the Philistines
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2018, 03:31:59 PM »
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I often assume (and rightly, I think) that old stories had truth in them.  But the religious connections mostly don't make much sense.  There may have been a local flood of the Black Sea, for example, but not because of a god-driven flood.

In Biblical terms, if it happened, G-d caused it.  So from their POV ... G-d caused local floods too.  Pagans worshipping Mother Nature aka Gaia would have attributed floods to her.  Canaanites worshipping Ba'al Hadad ... a storm god, would have attributed local floods to him
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Offline Baruch

Re: Modern Biblical Archeology - the Philistines
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2018, 03:33:04 PM »
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Floods are pretty well worldwide(other than the obvious). Tornadoes, not so much. So floods find an easy niche in religion as most people have real encounters with them or direct affected by them.

Ole God loves the rainbow as his "symbol of ....whatever the fuck it was... but if the old hacks what wrote the babble had ever seen the Aurora Borealis why, the wimpy rainbow wouldn't have made the first cut.

Aurora Borealis was associated by locals (Vikings) with dragons.  The auroras were thought to cause forest fires, and guard wealth.
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Offline Baruch

Re: Modern Biblical Archeology - the Philistines
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2018, 03:34:06 PM »
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Well, exactly.  There are local floods and bad weathers.  I notice few peoples who live inland have flood myths.  But if there was a world-wide flood, everyone would have the same myth.

That of course didn't happen.  Paul Bunyan didn't happen, so therefore the US doesn't exist.  Similarly Pecos Bill didn't happen, so therefore Texas doesn't exist.
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