Author Topic: 70% of Americans now support Medicare for All  (Read 1215 times)

Re: 70% of Americans now support Medicare for All
« Reply #15 on: August 30, 2018, 08:18:29 PM »
Our money, who art in banks, hallowed be thy cash. Thine interest come, thy profit done in Caymans, as it is in Switzerland. Give us this day our daily shares, and forgive us our debts, as we don't forgive our debtors. And lead us not into taxes, but deliver the goods. For thine is the nation, the power and our glory. Amen.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
"In life, unlike chess, the game continues after checkmate."
Isaac Asimov

Offline Shiranu

Re: 70% of Americans now support Medicare for All
« Reply #16 on: August 30, 2018, 08:21:08 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I never did sign up for the ACA. Let 'em fine me, can't get blood out of a turnip.

Same. I am too poor to afford it and too wealthy to qualify for the cheapest tiers.
"Judge a moth by the beauty of its candle." - Rumi

Offline Baruch

Re: 70% of Americans now support Medicare for All
« Reply #17 on: August 30, 2018, 10:35:00 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Our money, who art in banks, hallowed be thy cash. Thine interest come, thy profit done in Caymans, as it is in Switzerland. Give us this day our daily shares, and forgive us our debts, as we don't forgive our debtors. And lead us not into taxes, but deliver the goods. For thine is the nation, the power and our glory. Amen.

Your money in the bank?  First, it belongs to the government, it is on loan to you (hence the name on the money).  Second, deposited money belongs to the banks (who is a regulated extension of the government).  So the bank gives you the privilege of borrowing their money, that they have on loan from the ultimate owner, the government.  Isn't eminent domain great!
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline SGOS

Re: 70% of Americans now support Medicare for All
« Reply #18 on: August 31, 2018, 08:12:47 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
A real plan would be Medicare for all ...
I am currently very pleased with Medicare.  It keeps me out of that month to month hand to mouth existence, but if you do an unemotional comparison of Medicare with other western societies' coverage, it's not as great as we lead ourselves to believe.  Discussions of Medicare make is sound like it's free, but coverage for medications, Medicare Part B, and supplemental are as expensive as full insurance was 15 years ago.  Right now, those safety nets cost me around $400/month (almost $5000/year).

And that $400/month does not include drug insurance.  As it is, I buy (out of pocket) medications from an online Canadian pharmacy that charges 1/4 the price of my local CVS pharmacy on the corner.  But that is substantially less than the drug coverage would cost me through Medicare.

Offline trdsf

Re: 70% of Americans now support Medicare for All
« Reply #19 on: August 31, 2018, 10:51:46 AM »
Here's the thing about single payer.

Right now, it costs my employer nearly as much as my wages to provide me medical coverage, and I have to pay a premium on top of that anyway.

So even if my taxes go up ten or twenty percent (and they wouldn't go up that much), my employer could take what they had been spending on health insurance and give me nearly a 100% raise that would more than cover it.  Or even a 50% raise, bank the rest, and then have the county cut the tax that pays for our agency due to lower operating costs going forward.

Single payer?  Bring it.
Sir Terry Pratchett, on being told about the theory that the universe is a computer simulation: "If we all get out and in again, would it start to work properly this time?"

Offline SGOS

Re: 70% of Americans now support Medicare for All
« Reply #20 on: August 31, 2018, 11:47:00 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Here's the thing about single payer.

Right now, it costs my employer nearly as much as my wages to provide me medical coverage, and I have to pay a premium on top of that anyway.

So even if my taxes go up ten or twenty percent (and they wouldn't go up that much), my employer could take what they had been spending on health insurance and give me nearly a 100% raise that would more than cover it.  Or even a 50% raise, bank the rest, and then have the county cut the tax that pays for our agency due to lower operating costs going forward.

Single payer?  Bring it.
I've thought about this too.  When insurance began to go through the roof, my employer capped our insurance allowance at $400, and employees had to pay the difference.  My long ago ex just retired, and she told me her monthly share was up to $800, and it was never great insurance to begin with.  Imagine what employers could do with an extra $1200/month on each of their employees.  Even if they kept it for themselves, and taxes went up, you would still have extra income, and you wouldn't be bothered by insurance hassles.  I heard a figure a few years ago, put out by Republicans opposing healthcare, that taxes would go up $2000/yearly.  I have no idea how they arrived at this, but it's still far below the benefits accrued. In truth, I don't know how much taxes would go up.  We would need information from the government accounting office before we got out our paper and pencils.

People have strong visceral responses to taxes without thinking it through.  Of course the government would have to raise taxes, but people need to do the math before they reject it over a visceral response.  The downside is that's a lot of tax revenue sitting in government vaults as it's being dispersed on the country's health, and you know that the greedy would be eying it and scheming some way of getting their hands on it, and I'm certain many politicians would want to divert some of those revenues into the pockets of their biggest donors.  Citizens will have to watch what is happening and vote accordingly.

People with insurance from their employers don't think about it much.  They are happy to get a benefit and in some cases consider it a freebee, but it's not.  When I retired and was allowed to stay in my employers insurance program (that is if I was willing to pay the total premium), it dawned on me pretty quickly that my insurance was going to be my single biggest monthly bill that dwarfed the others, and it hurt.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2018, 11:50:27 AM by SGOS »

Offline Baruch

Re: 70% of Americans now support Medicare for All
« Reply #21 on: August 31, 2018, 12:21:54 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Here's the thing about single payer.

Right now, it costs my employer nearly as much as my wages to provide me medical coverage, and I have to pay a premium on top of that anyway.

So even if my taxes go up ten or twenty percent (and they wouldn't go up that much), my employer could take what they had been spending on health insurance and give me nearly a 100% raise that would more than cover it.  Or even a 50% raise, bank the rest, and then have the county cut the tax that pays for our agency due to lower operating costs going forward.

Single payer?  Bring it.

Crooked accounting.  Keeping things the same ... increased prices.  Changing thing in any way ... increased prices.  Either way, more tax for your government, more profit for the employer ... you get less salary, less benefits.  Your figures are imaginary, like all other projections of the future.  Bet much at the casino?
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline trdsf

Re: 70% of Americans now support Medicare for All
« Reply #22 on: August 31, 2018, 12:49:07 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I heard a figure a few years ago, put out by Republicans opposing healthcare, that taxes would go up $2000/yearly.  I have no idea how they arrived at this, but it's still far below the benefits accrued.
$2000 a year?  That would save me about $500 a year.

And the closest thing the Republicans have to a health care plan is to hope people die before they're old enough to qualify for Medicare.
Sir Terry Pratchett, on being told about the theory that the universe is a computer simulation: "If we all get out and in again, would it start to work properly this time?"

Offline Baruch

Re: 70% of Americans now support Medicare for All
« Reply #23 on: August 31, 2018, 06:52:41 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
$2000 a year?  That would save me about $500 a year.

And the closest thing the Republicans have to a health care plan is to hope people die before they're old enough to qualify for Medicare.

Correct ... D-party under Obama promised single-payer ... bwahah.
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Cavebear

Re: 70% of Americans now support Medicare for All
« Reply #24 on: September 01, 2018, 10:25:29 PM »
I keep regular insurance.  It's expensive and I almost never use it.  I didn't even visit a Dr for 10 years until June.  I expect a single payer system would cost me less and provide as good coverage.  The bigger the pool and the less profit-orientation would have to cost less.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: 70% of Americans now support Medicare for All
« Reply #25 on: September 02, 2018, 12:59:32 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I keep regular insurance.  It's expensive and I almost never use it.  I didn't even visit a Dr for 10 years until June.  I expect a single payer system would cost me less and provide as good coverage.  The bigger the pool and the less profit-orientation would have to cost less.

In theory, with honest actors.  But so many people, organizations are crooked ;-(
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline trdsf

Re: 70% of Americans now support Medicare for All
« Reply #26 on: September 02, 2018, 05:34:47 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I keep regular insurance.  It's expensive and I almost never use it.  I didn't even visit a Dr for 10 years until June.  I expect a single payer system would cost me less and provide as good coverage.  The bigger the pool and the less profit-orientation would have to cost less.
And, medical decisions need to be made by medical professionals trying to protect a patient's health.  Not accountants trying to protect a corporate bottom line.

Simply put, privatized health care doesn't work.  It's not cost effective, it isn't universal, and it frequently prioritizes private profits over the medical needs of the patient.
Sir Terry Pratchett, on being told about the theory that the universe is a computer simulation: "If we all get out and in again, would it start to work properly this time?"

Offline Baruch

Re: 70% of Americans now support Medicare for All
« Reply #27 on: September 02, 2018, 08:53:13 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
And, medical decisions need to be made by medical professionals trying to protect a patient's health.  Not accountants trying to protect a corporate bottom line.

Simply put, privatized health care doesn't work.  It's not cost effective, it isn't universal, and it frequently prioritizes private profits over the medical needs of the patient.

It works for the insurance companies, who pay the bills.  Those who have the "gold" make the rules.  Also both R and D want to enslave medical practitioners ... but for different reasons.  The only real question is who gets to run the plantation.
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Re: 70% of Americans now support Medicare for All
« Reply #28 on: September 04, 2018, 08:57:04 AM »
Like I've said before;  You wouldn't want a private, for profit organisation with lobbyists running your police or your fire department would you?

Winner of WitchSabrinas Best Advice Award 2012


We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real
tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. -Plato

Re: 70% of Americans now support Medicare for All
« Reply #29 on: September 04, 2018, 01:19:53 PM »
Here's story from 5 years ago:

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Privatized fire/police is nothing but a protection racket.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
"In life, unlike chess, the game continues after checkmate."
Isaac Asimov

 

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk