Author Topic: 70% of Americans now support Medicare for All  (Read 848 times)

Offline Hydra009

70% of Americans now support Medicare for All
« on: August 29, 2018, 02:36:24 PM »
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The vast majority of Americans, 70 percent, now support Medicare-for-all, otherwise known as single-payer health care, according to a new Reuters survey. That includes 85 percent of Democrats and 52 percent of Republicans. Only 20 percent of Americans say they outright oppose the idea.

So naturally, vast swathes of Democratic and Republican politicians are shouting it from the rooftops, right?  Nope.

Republicans...not so much.  Quite the opposite, in fact.  The obvious take-away is that they don't care much about their base's opinions, much less their health, just their votes.

Meanwhile, Democrats have been You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login because it's "divisive" (to who?)

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“We’re out of power right now, we can’t make any of that happen,” he said of single payer health care.
If only there were some issue wildly popular with the people that you could latch onto to win back support...

Re: 70% of Americans now support Medicare for All
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2018, 02:53:40 PM »
There will have to be some really major changes in America before we can even hope to get single payer health care. I don't think it will ever happen - but I can hope.
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Online Baruch

Re: 70% of Americans now support Medicare for All
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2018, 07:21:41 PM »
I hope too.  But 62 years have taught me that Santa Claus isn't real.  First we have to get rid of Medicare fraud ... by kicking all the D-party members off it?
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Re: 70% of Americans now support Medicare for All
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2018, 08:31:56 PM »
The massive 'for profit' capitalistic principle will not go down without screaming and shouting.

It's easier to call it 'socialism' and ignore the benefits to society.  Heck, it could infringe on the profit margin of 'for profit' insurance.


Offline SGOS

Re: 70% of Americans now support Medicare for All
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2018, 10:38:11 AM »
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There will have to be some really major changes in America before we can even hope to get single payer health care. I don't think it will ever happen - but I can hope.
I don't think I've said this before, but my biggest objection to Obamacare was that it was a way of delaying health care.  It's just a glorified reinstatement of the status quo.  Democrats applauded and said it was the first baby step toward single payer.  I see it as a step in the opposite direction intended to delay single payer.  How is forced purchase of insurance from private insures a step toward single payer?  The longer we are entrenched in Obamacare, the more we will adjust to the fact that that 70% referred to will never be heard, and people will begin to throw up their hands in surrender. 

I might concede that helping the poor is a baby step, but until everyone understands that buying insurance through private insurers, even for the poor subsidized by the middle class, single payer will not happen until we have a revolution, a quiet one I hope, but a revolution none the less.  The problem as I see it, revolves around private insurers.  They would have to be taken out of the equation.

Had the Republicans been successful in killing Obamacare, I would not have minded. It would have been gone and a new attempt to get universal single payer could be put into effect.  Obamacare looms over us like a cloud.  I don't think single payer will happen while I am alive, but so be it. 

My prediction is that there will be single payer eventually, but I don't predict anything like other countries.  It will be minimal coverage, requiring out of pocket purchase of supplemental insurance from private insurers who will go to work lobbying to make single payer more and more minimal, so they can step in with ever more costly supplemental insurance, which will make them as wealthy as they are now.  But that is the limit of both my optimism and pessimism.  We will have single payer, but it won't be much, and there will be no safeguards from being financially wiped out.  There will be the traditional exclusions and loopholes limiting coverage of the costly supplementals.  That's my prediction, but I also predict that I won't be around to see if I'm right.  So I'll put my "I told you so" on record now, which really isn't that satisfying.

Online Baruch

Re: 70% of Americans now support Medicare for All
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2018, 12:49:45 PM »
Forcing people to buy a private product (or small set of private products) is corrupt as hell.  Mandatory single payor would be the same, but simpler.  A real plan would be Medicare for all ... except you usually need a private insurance wrapper around that particular shit sandwich.

Providing people with crappy insurance at high price (instead of just denying insurance) isn't that much of an improvement.

If you want to provide more medical care, go become a nurse or a doctor, and try to provide services at low cost.

Otherwise one is just the commissar of BS.
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Online Shiranu

Re: 70% of Americans now support Medicare for All
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2018, 01:17:27 PM »
Quote
Had the Republicans been successful in killing Obamacare, I would not have minded. It would have been gone and a new attempt to get universal single payer could be put into effect.  Obamacare looms over us like a cloud.  I don't think single payer will happen while I am alive, but so be it. 

I want to agree with you, and for the most part I do, but I do have a problem with this.

If the Republicans repealed Obamacare, that would have been it... it's not like they were going to propose a better solution any time soon, and the Democrats would not have been able to reinstate it for awhile yet. Additionally the Supreme Court has now been loaded with conservatives which means they always have a trump card to hamper it any chance they get.

If Obamacare failed, why would the Democrats go even further "left" (see; sensible)? If anything it probably would have just pushed them further right since that has been the Democratic strategy for most of the modern era; if you are accused of being too "left" (even if you are at best moderate), move further right to try to draw in voters rather than try to be the opposition party.

Tom Morello had a great interview with Trevor Noah a night or two ago where he talked about his time working for a Democratic Senator in California for two years as a coordinator or something along those lines. His role was essentially to make sure that the Senator was, at all times, receiving calls and attending events from big-money donors, and those donations and the attention did not come for free. He then told the story about why he quit politics and plans on never going back in; a woman called him wanting to speak to the Senator because Mexicans were moving into her neighbourhood and she wanted to know what the Senator would do about it... he promptly told her to go to hell and hung up.

Rather than being praised, he spent the next two weeks being berated and yelled at for hanging up on her by the Senator and his staff, he quit and the rest is history.

The point of bringing that story up is that, fundamentally, the issues America face are fundamentally rooted more in corruption (legalized bribery in lobbying) than in any ideological difference. Both the left and the right take money from the medical insurance and medical care industries and they have no intention on crossing their funders.

Until campaign finance reform is passed and lobbying is extremely limited or banned all together... I just don't see any real, substantial changes being made across the board, not just in healthcare but in essentially every facet of our governance.

I've Got Love, Fuck Your Money.

Don't feed the douche-trolls.

Re: 70% of Americans now support Medicare for All
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2018, 01:39:19 PM »
Wasn't the age requirements for Medicare supposed to have decreased bit by bit until everyone was covered? I think I heard that somewhere.
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Offline SGOS

Re: 70% of Americans now support Medicare for All
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2018, 03:18:53 PM »
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I want to agree with you, and for the most part I do, but I do have a problem with this.

If the Republicans repealed Obamacare, that would have been it... it's not like they were going to propose a better solution any time soon, and the Democrats would not have been able to reinstate it for awhile yet.
I've considered this too.  It's likely Democrats would use this to make the claim that there isn't enough support or consensus on healthcare (even if that's not true of the electorate).  And frankly I doubt key Democrats want healthcare to begin with. 

NPR did a piece awhile back pointing out that Obamacare failed to please many Democrats, and the population at large didn't like it.  Republicans seized on this and made repeal a campaign issue, but failed to deliver probably because some constituents benefited.  Now the tables are turned, and preserving Obamacare is the Democrat's campaign issue.  So said  NPR.   Although most everything the party currently emails me is about redistricting and gerrymandering.  That seems to be the watchword as the hot button of the moment.  If the Dems win, they won't deliver on redistricting reform, since they will be in power, and Obamacare will be left alone because it's easier to do nothing than to do something.

But I agree that an extended lag in a healthcare vacuum is a risk since Democrats didn't fare well by passing Obamacare, and Republicans didn't fare well in repealing it.  Healthcare could be a hot potato for awhile.  But 70% approval for single payer is extraordinarily high for an issue.  We invaded Iraq on 67%.  I'm even a bit skeptical of that 70% figure, but if voters have any good sense at all, 70% could be believable.  If it goes higher, as it very well might in an environment of soaring insurance costs, there could be an overwhelming consensus that can't be ignored.

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If Obamacare failed, why would the Democrats go even further "left" (see; sensible)? If anything it probably would have just pushed them further right since that has been the Democratic strategy for most of the modern era; if you are accused of being too "left" (even if you are at best moderate), move further right to try to draw in voters rather than try to be the opposition party.
From what I hear, many new Democrats are making that move to the left, as far as healthcare anyway.  Although this is campaign stuff which doesn't actually apply to legislation.  But as you say, the party leadership has moved to the right in recent years leaving many key constituents unrepresented.  I understand the strategy of shadowing Republicans and depending on voters to support the lesser of two evils.  I think it's a stupid strategy, however.  I can understand the ideological theory, but ideologies never work as perfectly as the theory predicts.  I think Democrats could have faired better in recent years sticking by their constituents.  They failed to keep me in the fold, anyway, but I'm probably not representative of most liberals.  On the other hand, I'm sensing a change among liberals, mostly the younger ones who are starting to break out of the Democratic trench and not buying that their role in politics is to be nothing more than party cheerleaders.  We saw this with support for Sanders being progressive and lack of enthusiasm for Hillary being just more of the old school.

At least that's my take, but I'm often wrong about politics.  In the last couple of years, I'm seeing that the country is a lot more redneck than I thought.  I think I miscalculated on that one. 

Offline SGOS

Re: 70% of Americans now support Medicare for All
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2018, 03:41:24 PM »
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If Obamacare failed, why would the Democrats go even further "left" (see; sensible)? If anything it probably would have just pushed them further right
I meant to address this earlier.  Obamacare failed to get the desired reception because 99% of the supporters for healthcare never imagined that Democrats would pass a substitute that was invented by Republicans as a tongue in cheek alternative to healthcare during the Clinton administration.  It was a classic bait and switch.  Everyone thought we were going to pass universal healthcare with a progressive president and Democratic controlled congress until the last minute when the car we had been test driving was suddenly unavailable, and the one without the power widows or extra options was wheeled up to the door as the salesman was giving us the papers to sign.  It was sickening for me to realize that voters had been fooled.

Democrats had taken the move to the right strategy to the point where many liberals could no longer tolerate.  And it didn't help that we had been bamboozled in the process.

Re: 70% of Americans now support Medicare for All
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2018, 03:50:15 PM »
I never did sign up for the ACA. Let 'em fine me, can't get blood out of a turnip.
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Online Baruch

Re: 70% of Americans now support Medicare for All
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2018, 07:34:46 PM »
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I want to agree with you, and for the most part I do, but I do have a problem with this.

If the Republicans repealed Obamacare, that would have been it... it's not like they were going to propose a better solution any time soon, and the Democrats would not have been able to reinstate it for awhile yet. Additionally the Supreme Court has now been loaded with conservatives which means they always have a trump card to hamper it any chance they get.

If Obamacare failed, why would the Democrats go even further "left" (see; sensible)? If anything it probably would have just pushed them further right since that has been the Democratic strategy for most of the modern era; if you are accused of being too "left" (even if you are at best moderate), move further right to try to draw in voters rather than try to be the opposition party.

Tom Morello had a great interview with Trevor Noah a night or two ago where he talked about his time working for a Democratic Senator in California for two years as a coordinator or something along those lines. His role was essentially to make sure that the Senator was, at all times, receiving calls and attending events from big-money donors, and those donations and the attention did not come for free. He then told the story about why he quit politics and plans on never going back in; a woman called him wanting to speak to the Senator because Mexicans were moving into her neighbourhood and she wanted to know what the Senator would do about it... he promptly told her to go to hell and hung up.

Rather than being praised, he spent the next two weeks being berated and yelled at for hanging up on her by the Senator and his staff, he quit and the rest is history.

The point of bringing that story up is that, fundamentally, the issues America face are fundamentally rooted more in corruption (legalized bribery in lobbying) than in any ideological difference. Both the left and the right take money from the medical insurance and medical care industries and they have no intention on crossing their funders.

Until campaign finance reform is passed and lobbying is extremely limited or banned all together... I just don't see any real, substantial changes being made across the board, not just in healthcare but in essentially every facet of our governance.

Originally a Republican think-tank plan became Romney-care ... which morphed into Obama-care.  It has been Republican all along, just as President Obama was ... and Bill Clinton before him.  So why should they actual stop it?
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Online Baruch

Re: 70% of Americans now support Medicare for All
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2018, 07:35:43 PM »
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Wasn't the age requirements for Medicare supposed to have decreased bit by bit until everyone was covered? I think I heard that somewhere.

That was one idea that was broached I think too.  But no dice.  Instead Medicare and SS will go up in start age.
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Online Baruch

Re: 70% of Americans now support Medicare for All
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2018, 07:37:35 PM »
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I never did sign up for the ACA. Let 'em fine me, can't get blood out of a turnip.

IRS enforcement ... but if you are on Medicare, it won't matter anyway.

The answer is Logan's Run .. no old people ...

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« Last Edit: August 30, 2018, 07:41:15 PM by Baruch »
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Re: 70% of Americans now support Medicare for All
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2018, 08:03:09 PM »
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"The Republicans went from Abraham Lincoln to Sarah Palin to Donald Trump. No wonder they don't believe in evolution."
Any Borowitz

 

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