Author Topic: Pennsylvania Priests  (Read 1440 times)

Re: Pennsylvania Priests
« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2018, 10:53:10 PM »
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The claim that it was "the declining moral standards in prevailing culture" that led to the abuse is a crock of shit. This abuse has been going on, I expect, for centuries. I have no proof of that, so I could be wrong, but I bet I'm not.

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I concur. I have no doubt that priests have been abusing their power this way from the very beginning. It's just that we're finally starting to notice, and care.
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville

Offline trdsf

Re: Pennsylvania Priests
« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2018, 01:22:48 AM »
What's appalling is that we just didn't know.  One of my teachers was the priest that repeatedly raped the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login.  And You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login is absolutely right, this has been going on a lot longer than we've known about it.  In 1962, the Vatican issued You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login (itself based on instructions from 1922 under the same name) which specified excommunication for the victim if they reported being abused to secular authorities.  Everything was to be held close and quiet and covered up.  Even the 2001 motu proprio You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login prescribed clerical trials rather than handing offenders over to civil authorities.

It's very hard to think of the Roman Catholic Church, no matter how personable Pope Frank is, as anything other than a corrupt and irredeemable organization.
Sir Terry Pratchett, on being told about the theory that the universe is a computer simulation: "If we all get out and in again, would it start to work properly this time?"

Offline Baruch

Re: Pennsylvania Priests
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2018, 03:21:46 AM »
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A man with a nuclear arsenal?

Uh, Obama from 2009 - 2017?  How many countries did he invade?
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luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Baruch

Re: Pennsylvania Priests
« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2018, 03:24:13 AM »
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Probably secretly converted to Islam before molesting them.

Usually in modern times Muslim boy-sex was limited to certain Afghan cultures.  The number of eunuchs among the harem was limited due to lack of volunteers ;-)  Similarly, Muslim female-circumcision is from a limited number of African cultures.

Or were you just trying to troll pr126?
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luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Re: Pennsylvania Priests
« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2018, 06:13:45 AM »
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I concur. I have no doubt that priests have been abusing their power this way from the very beginning. It's just that we're finally starting to notice, and care.
A fellow grad student at Purdue was researching the relationship between the Church and the citizens of one of the Italian city-states (can't remember which one) and read me the letter he found from a mother to her local priest. The priest had told the mother that her son had a lovely voice and he should be trained at the Vatican for continued singing at the cathedral. She agreed and the boy went off. When he came back a year later he had been castrated as part of the "training". But he still had a lovely voice, so God must have been okay with it.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Re: Pennsylvania Priests
« Reply #20 on: August 26, 2018, 09:34:41 AM »
It seems to me that the hierarchy of any religion grows up for the main purpose of power which entails control of the masses.  As the hierarchy gains that power, they use it.  The priesthood of the Roman Catholic church became powerful centuries ago; it seems reasonable that having a priests way with his flock took (and takes) many forms.  So, using alter boys to be altered makes sense.  And the lip service of the higher part of the hierarchy makes sense too--they partake of the altering of boys (and girls), but they also need to make noises that that is a bad thing for the PR it generates.  I would imagine this was a thing for the Roman Catholic priests from near the get-go.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline Baruch

Re: Pennsylvania Priests
« Reply #21 on: August 26, 2018, 03:02:24 PM »
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A fellow grad student at Purdue was researching the relationship between the Church and the citizens of one of the Italian city-states (can't remember which one) and read me the letter he found from a mother to her local priest. The priest had told the mother that her son had a lovely voice and he should be trained at the Vatican for continued singing at the cathedral. She agreed and the boy went off. When he came back a year later he had been castrated as part of the "training". But he still had a lovely voice, so God must have been okay with it.

Guelphs (Pope) vs Ghibellines (Emperor).  Back in the day, it was common to have castrati in royal and ecclesiastical courts.  Early involuntary transgender surgery?  I suspect this was because soprano singers were only allowed to be males (women were not allowed to sing or act in polite society).  This was elitist entertainment.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2018, 03:04:29 PM by Baruch »
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luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Baruch

Re: Pennsylvania Priests
« Reply #22 on: August 26, 2018, 03:03:17 PM »
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It seems to me that the hierarchy of any religion grows up for the main purpose of power which entails control of the masses.  As the hierarchy gains that power, they use it.  The priesthood of the Roman Catholic church became powerful centuries ago; it seems reasonable that having a priests way with his flock took (and takes) many forms.  So, using alter boys to be altered makes sense.  And the lip service of the higher part of the hierarchy makes sense too--they partake of the altering of boys (and girls), but they also need to make noises that that is a bad thing for the PR it generates.  I would imagine this was a thing for the Roman Catholic priests from near the get-go.

The masses should be controlled, even castrated (not literally).  They are an ignorant rabble and still are.
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Re: Pennsylvania Priests
« Reply #23 on: August 26, 2018, 05:17:17 PM »
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specified excommunication for the victim if they reported being abused to secular authorities.

I've sometimes wished I were a catholic, just so I could be excommunicated.
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"In life, unlike chess, the game continues after checkmate."
Isaac Asimov

Offline trdsf

Re: Pennsylvania Priests
« Reply #24 on: August 26, 2018, 05:30:36 PM »
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It seems to me that the hierarchy of any religion grows up for the main purpose of power which entails control of the masses.  As the hierarchy gains that power, they use it.  The priesthood of the Roman Catholic church became powerful centuries ago; it seems reasonable that having a priests way with his flock took (and takes) many forms.  So, using alter boys to be altered makes sense.  And the lip service of the higher part of the hierarchy makes sense too--they partake of the altering of boys (and girls), but they also need to make noises that that is a bad thing for the PR it generates.  I would imagine this was a thing for the Roman Catholic priests from near the get-go.
Basically.  The Vatican still hasn't really reconciled itself to the fact that it no longer is the dominant de facto (and often de jure) political/secular authority in Europe, much less the world.  They're used to being a law unto themselves regardless of the nations in which they operated, and that's going to be reflected in their internal machinations.  Of course the Vatican's response to the various sex abuse scandals was to cover up β€” it's a tenet of Catholicism that you're not allowed to question the Church in religious matters, so of course they had an expectation to not be questioned in any matter.
Sir Terry Pratchett, on being told about the theory that the universe is a computer simulation: "If we all get out and in again, would it start to work properly this time?"

Re: Pennsylvania Priests
« Reply #25 on: August 26, 2018, 05:43:47 PM »
If they could, the RCC would extend "freedom of religion" to allow them to abuse children, since it's part and parcel of their religion.
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"In life, unlike chess, the game continues after checkmate."
Isaac Asimov

Offline trdsf

Re: Pennsylvania Priests
« Reply #26 on: August 26, 2018, 06:26:03 PM »
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If they could, the RCC would extend "freedom of religion" to allow them to abuse children, since it's part and parcel of their religion.
By claiming the absolute right to levy judgment and punishment on lawbreakers to the exclusion of civil authorities, that's exactly what they are doing.  Basically, every single solitary ordained Roman Catholic cleric, from a lowly parish priest to the most exalted cardinal-bishop of the Curia, has a decent chance of effectively being given diplomatic immunity by the "Holy" See and being whisked away to a clerical trial and a sentence of a "life of contemplation" or some bullshit like it.
Sir Terry Pratchett, on being told about the theory that the universe is a computer simulation: "If we all get out and in again, would it start to work properly this time?"

Re: Pennsylvania Priests
« Reply #27 on: August 26, 2018, 06:40:40 PM »
Quote from: Bishop O’Connor, Pittsburgh
The tolerance of liberty can be maintained until complete federal and state control by Catholics has been accomplished.

That's kind of scary.
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"In life, unlike chess, the game continues after checkmate."
Isaac Asimov

Offline Baruch

Re: Pennsylvania Priests
« Reply #28 on: August 26, 2018, 11:21:03 PM »
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I've sometimes wished I were a catholic, just so I could be excommunicated.

This week end I was ex-communicated.  I visited my daughter, and her and my ex and I had breakfast together.  So you can also get that distinction by being divorced.
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luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Baruch

Re: Pennsylvania Priests
« Reply #29 on: August 26, 2018, 11:21:56 PM »
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Basically.  The Vatican still hasn't really reconciled itself to the fact that it no longer is the dominant de facto (and often de jure) political/secular authority in Europe, much less the world.  They're used to being a law unto themselves regardless of the nations in which they operated, and that's going to be reflected in their internal machinations.  Of course the Vatican's response to the various sex abuse scandals was to cover up β€” it's a tenet of Catholicism that you're not allowed to question the Church in religious matters, so of course they had an expectation to not be questioned in any matter.

Anyone who counted the Vatican "out" in the last 1700 years was wrong.
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

 

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