Did the Green Party "Spoil" the (D) Ohio special election?

Started by orcus, August 19, 2018, 12:45:08 AM

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Hydra009

Quote from: Cavebear on August 22, 2018, 05:38:35 AM
I don't need a campaigner as President.  I don't need a charismatic wanna-be dictator as President.  I just want sensible management to identify and correct problems in the system and maintain good international relationships.  Both Gore and Hillary Clinton would have done that just fine.
That's the thing, though.  The people mainly vote for the candidates based on their ability to campaign, not their ability to govern.  That's why people who could be good administrators get sidelined by showboats who are much more comfortable at rallies than they are at the Oval Office.

Elected officials have to win elections, first and foremost.  Legislation is a secondary concern.

Unbeliever

That, and we no longer have an informed electorate - if we ever did. But the dumbing down of America has been going on for so long and has been so successful that we could put a Russian operative in the damned White House! Even if we can get rid of him, enough damage has already been done to America's standing in the world that it will take a long time to recover, if we ever can.
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

Hydra009

Quote from: Unbeliever on August 22, 2018, 01:39:37 PM
That, and we no longer have an informed electorate - if we ever did. But the dumbing down of America has been going on for so long and has been so successful that we could put a Russian operative in the damned White House! Even if we can get rid of him, enough damage has already been done to America's standing in the world that it will take a long time to recover, if we ever can.
Do we have an informed electorate now?  Did we ever an informed electorate?  These are fascinating questions that don't have easy answers.

In some ways, we actually have a more informed public than we ever did - we have a much greater access to information than our great grandparents and we have a rather aggressive press thrusting their mics at anything that moves.  The President makes a factual claim, and there are factcheckers at the ready to challenge them over it.

On the other hand, the press has considerable problems, not the least of which is their great difficulty in adapting to the internet (check out John Oliver's video on Journalism), the rise of "infotainment" over journalism, and tabloid-style "reporting".  And of course, all the information in the world doesn't matter when a large chunk of the country ignores it.

Conservatives generally shun facts that paints their guy in a bad light, and Democrats do the same.  (Though I note that both the criticisms and how these criticisms are presented tends to be quite a bit different...)

And it's not just that, we literally follow different stories.  I'll open my newsfeed and see stuff about presidential scandals, foreign tensions/conflict, global warming, and internet neutrality while more conservative-minded people around me hear about how we're living in the End Times, Obama's in the Muslim Brotherhood and is going to take all our guns any second now, and Marxist professors are at it again.

Imo, it's probably a bit of a wash.  Technology has gotten better, but people haven't.  Facts are communicated at broadband speeds, but so are lies.

Unbeliever

There's so much conflicting information out there that people have a hard time knowing what to believe, and they don't know how to think the way they once did (or at least, may have). They're taught what to think, but not how to think. That may not be the case for everyone, but it's the case for enough of them that they can be easily manipulated into voting against their (and the country's) best interests.
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

Baruch

Quote from: Unbeliever on August 22, 2018, 01:39:37 PM
That, and we no longer have an informed electorate - if we ever did. But the dumbing down of America has been going on for so long and has been so successful that we could put a Russian operative in the damned White House! Even if we can get rid of him, enough damage has already been done to America's standing in the world that it will take a long time to recover, if we ever can.

I can hardly wait for the Final Solution comes to the US.  Get you completely dependent on the Internet, then cut you off without warning!  Bwahah.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

Quote from: Unbeliever on August 22, 2018, 02:43:15 PM
There's so much conflicting information out there that people have a hard time knowing what to believe, and they don't know how to think the way they once did (or at least, may have). They're taught what to think, but not how to think. That may not be the case for everyone, but it's the case for enough of them that they can be easily manipulated into voting against their (and the country's) best interests.

People have always voted for the wealthy interests (including FDR).  And that is never in their best interest.  Still believe in voting, in elections, in republics?

MSM news coverage:
R White House - we are all going to die!
D White House - we are all going to die!

Y'all are muppets!
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Cavebear

Quote from: trdsf on August 22, 2018, 01:13:16 PM
Well, we're still awaiting results from the count of the absentee ballots, and however many provisionals wound up being accepted -- most of those are where the voter forgot their ID, and the voter has something like a week to return to their Board of Elections with proof of identity and the provisional vote becomes a real vote.

I actually have a fair bit of sympathy for our secretary of state, Jon Husted, right now.  He's got:


  • Faux News bitching about the OH-12 final count "dragging on" â€" no, it's right on schedule, absent a state-mandated recount the final result is not due until the 24th
  • The Orange Disaster Area and candidate Balderson declaring victory even though his lead is around 1200 votes and there are up to 8500 absentee and provisional votes to be counted â€" but we already know Republicans can't do math, look at their budgets
  • and a few left wing nut jobs â€" we have them on our side of the aisle, we just don't hand them unquestioned control of the party unlike the GOP and their right wing nut jobs â€" claiming it's taking so long because Republican Husted is trying to cook the electoral books

And what Faux and Lord Dampnut and Balderson and the paranoids need to do, really, is sit the fuck down and shut the fuck up and let them do their jobs.  I have a little sympathy for the ones worried about electronic voting, but not that much.

The one thing I love about Ohio is that even our extremists aren't very extreme, for the most part.  We don't do extreme.  We're Ohioans.  On the excitement level, we're right up there with putty-colored office cubicle trim.  Remember what pushed John Boehner out of the Speakership?  Trying to do his fucking job rather than stamping out on the edge of the field and screaming "NO!" until he got his way.  I'm confident that Husted will just do his job â€" no one on the Republican side wants a repeat of what happened to the party at the state level in the wake of Ken Blackwell's deliberate attempts to manipulate the 2004 presidential vote in Ohio: the only statewide office they retained in the next election in '06 was Auditor; Democrats swept to power across the Executive branch.

Understood.  But enjoy:

Official state color - Putty
Official state bird:  Bird
Official state plant:  Mowed Grass
Official state tree:  Grass
Official state song:  C Flat
Official state beer:  Non-alcoholic
Official state food:  Very Mild Cheddar

No offense, all in good fun.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

trdsf

So, we can answer the question posed in the subject of this thread.  The final count, including absentee and approved provisional votes, is in.






Candidate Votes Percent
Balderson 104,328
50.12%
O'Connor 102,648
49.32%
Manchik 1,165
0.56%

Did the Green candidate cost O'Connor the election?  No, definitely not â€" even if all the Green voters had voted Democratic, it wouldn't have made any difference.  Balderson ultimately won an actual majority, not just a plurality.

The tiny size of which in a district gerrymandered to guarantee a safe R seat fills my heart with joy.
"My faith in the Constitution is whole, it is complete, it is total, and I am not going to sit here and be an idle spectator to the diminution, the subversion, the destruction of the Constitution." -- Barbara Jordan

Cavebear

Quote from: trdsf on August 29, 2018, 12:37:21 AM
So, we can answer the question posed in the subject of this thread.  The final count, including absentee and approved provisional votes, is in.






Candidate Votes Percent
Balderson 104,328
50.12%
O'Connor 102,648
49.32%
Manchik 1,165
0.56%

Did the Green candidate cost O'Connor the election?  No, definitely not â€" even if all the Green voters had voted Democratic, it wouldn't have made any difference.  Balderson ultimately won an actual majority, not just a plurality.

The tiny size of which in a district gerrymandered to guarantee a safe R seat fills my heart with joy.

There are some Republican Districts.  No big surprise there.  What worries me is where the 3rd party does affect the elections (when the 3rd party DID capture enough votes to prevent the loser from winning).  That's a more subtle effect.  And Gerrymandering is wrong no matter who wins. 

I would like to see a judge having an inked grid and stamping a State map saying,  make your Districts as close to THAT as possible.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Baruch

Quote from: Cavebear on September 01, 2018, 08:52:14 PM
There are some Republican Districts.  No big surprise there.  What worries me is where the 3rd party does affect the elections (when the 3rd party DID capture enough votes to prevent the loser from winning).  That's a more subtle effect.  And Gerrymandering is wrong no matter who wins. 

I would like to see a judge having an inked grid and stamping a State map saying,  make your Districts as close to THAT as possible.

Fair district boundaries would be nice.  Meanwhile there are states where anyone can vote in a party primary.  That is pretty weird.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.