Author Topic: Muhammad, prophet or pretender  (Read 924 times)

Offline aitm

Re: Muhammad, prophet or pretender
« Reply #30 on: August 22, 2018, 07:43:02 PM »
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Very little of the Bible is to be interpreted through a literal lense. The Hebrew had a big problem with this along with hypocrisy and pride.



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Proof that religion trumps science, common sense and simple observation. And they wonder why we laugh at them.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Re: Muhammad, prophet or pretender
« Reply #31 on: August 22, 2018, 07:49:11 PM »
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Very little of the Bible is to be interpreted through a literal lense. The Hebrew had a big problem with this along with hypocrisy and pride.

So how are we supposed to know which parts are, and which are not, supposed to be "interpreted through a literal lense"?
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"The Republicans went from Abraham Lincoln to Sarah Palin to Donald Trump. No wonder they don't believe in evolution."
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Re: Muhammad, prophet or pretender
« Reply #32 on: August 22, 2018, 08:15:43 PM »
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Proof that religion trumps science, common sense and simple observation. And they wonder why we laugh at them.
I'm not following. Science and faith in a Source and belief in a purpose dont cancel one another out, but to together to me.

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Re: Muhammad, prophet or pretender
« Reply #33 on: August 22, 2018, 08:25:00 PM »
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So how are we supposed to know which parts are, and which are not, supposed to be "interpreted through a literal lense"?
What is the point of doubting or believing a particular part is to be taken literally? If you are looking at the Bible to find some historical validity then you are enquiring on the wrong topic. It is a guidance to the soul or heart. Such is considered spiritual or philosophical; and as such, not literal or related so much to the material.

That isn't to say that guidance of the heart and mind cannot change the actions of one's hands or the direction of their feet.

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Offline SGOS

Re: Muhammad, prophet or pretender
« Reply #34 on: August 22, 2018, 08:25:52 PM »
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That is very opinionated.
How so?

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In my opinion the vast majority is not to be taken literally, yet is truthful in manifold ways and levels.
Manifold truths tend to contradict themselves.  The literalist says, "This is so."  The illiteralist says, "It is not so.  Where is the truth in that?  Do you feel it in your bones?  And metaphorical apologetics allow even more variety of conflicting interpretations.

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It is written by men inspired by GOD or rather inspirited by GOD.
Oh, I thought they were inspired.  But really they were inspirited.  That makes a lot of difference, right?

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some more than others no doubt.
Do I assume those who were more inspirited were the credible experts with the better credentials, and those who were less inspirited were the unreliable sources we were told about in high school critical reading exercises.

Re: Muhammad, prophet or pretender
« Reply #35 on: August 22, 2018, 08:33:28 PM »


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How so?
Manifold truths tend to contradict themselves.  The literalist says, "This is so."  The illiteralist says, "It is not so.  Where is the truth in that?  Do you feel it in your bones?  And metaphorical apologetics allow even more variety of conflicting interpretations.
Oh, I thought they were inspired.  But really they were inspirited.  That makes a lot of difference, right?
Do I assume those who were more inspirited were the credible experts with the better credentials, and those who were less inspirited were the unreliable sources we were told about in high school critical reading exercises.

Nonsense; how does truth intertwined and related on multiple levels equal that which is false?

Who said the literalist was ever correct when speaking of spiritual guidance?

Indeed one can feel the truth.

Much or a difference in inspirited? Not too much; one would be to a greater extent.

Credentials? No....these aren't things for the scholarly regardless of what the wealthy would have one believe.

That isn't to say a scholar can't come to know what is good in their life, hit that it is difficult; not having a place/ time for the experience due to being....sidetracked or deviated from significance and purpose by greed or fear.

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Re: Muhammad, prophet or pretender
« Reply #36 on: August 22, 2018, 08:45:21 PM »
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Indeed one can feel the truth.
See, this is that part that just feels silly to me. The truth I feel is that truth can't be felt.
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Re: Muhammad, prophet or pretender
« Reply #37 on: August 22, 2018, 08:50:33 PM »
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See, this is that part that just feels silly to me. The truth I feel is that truth can't be felt.
You are speaking of a different type of truth or rather, a different level.

Do you believe in the conscience?

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Offline SGOS

Re: Muhammad, prophet or pretender
« Reply #38 on: August 22, 2018, 08:52:46 PM »
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Nonsense; how does truth intertwined and related on multiple levels equal that which is false?
... what truth?  How is truth divined?  Who knows what's false?  That's exactly the problem with the Bible.

Quote
Who said the literalist was ever correct when speaking of spiritual guidance?
... not me, I would never say that.  I think the literalists are on the extreme end of the wacky to weird scale.

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Indeed one can feel the truth.
... interesting.

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Credentials? No....these aren't things for the scholarly regardless of what the wealthy would have one believe.
... not sure what that means.

Quote
That isn't to say a scholar can't come to know what is good in their life, hit that it is difficult; not having a place/ time for the experience due to being....sidetracked or deviated from significance and purpose by greed or fear.
... I'm lost, but then I'm losing interest really fast.



Re: Muhammad, prophet or pretender
« Reply #39 on: August 22, 2018, 08:55:56 PM »
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You are speaking of a different type of truth or rather, a different level.

Do you believe in the conscience?

Do you mean "conscience" as in the part of us that feels bad when we hurt someone, or do you mean consciousness, as in the part of us that is awake and aware?
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"The Republicans went from Abraham Lincoln to Sarah Palin to Donald Trump. No wonder they don't believe in evolution."
Any Borowitz

Re: Muhammad, prophet or pretender
« Reply #40 on: August 22, 2018, 09:15:00 PM »
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Do you mean "conscience" as in the part of us that feels bad when we hurt someone, or do you mean consciousness, as in the part of us that is awake and aware?
conscience...

It is a guidance we feel and can correlate with literal truth on manifold levels and is in no way limited to the physical though some may contend it is due to chemical changes. The thing is; these sorts of emotions that have to do with the conscience. Though some emotion is caused by chemical changes in the brain and is from thought processes; other emotion can cause further chemical change and further critical thought.



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Re: Muhammad, prophet or pretender
« Reply #41 on: August 22, 2018, 09:59:26 PM »
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IT is universal. Every one has the capacity to abide by the Spirit. It does not have to be known through any sacred texts in my opinion.

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How is one supposed to 'know' spirit??????
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Re: Muhammad, prophet or pretender
« Reply #42 on: August 22, 2018, 10:02:24 PM »
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You are speaking of a different type of truth or rather, a different level.

Do you believe in the conscience?

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I do.  And it guides me daily.  But it is not a spirit--nor is it just 'known'.  I work on it daily.  And through practice it is reinforced or changed.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Re: Muhammad, prophet or pretender
« Reply #43 on: August 22, 2018, 10:28:29 PM »


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I do.  And it guides me daily.  But it is not a spirit--nor is it just 'known'.  I work on it daily.  And through practice it is reinforced or changed.

That is good to hear friend.

The conscience is a guidance and it can change or be subjective unless altruism or selflessness is actively applied to moral equations. You can say it is a product of chemical/ changes caused by the brain and that it too causes these changes in instances. You don't haven't agree that it is of GOD; and I didn't exactly mean the conscience is GOD, but that it is imparted by GOD that we might attain to the guidance of GOD/ the Spirit/ Creator/ Origin of both life and the conscience....even if you believe in evolution and that we are but the sum of our parts.

peace

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Offline Baruch

Re: Muhammad, prophet or pretender
« Reply #44 on: August 23, 2018, 05:01:24 AM »
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How is one supposed to 'know' spirit??????

Not everything is epistemology.  And folks here don't even believe that philosophy exists (neither did Feynman or Hawking).

There are metaphysics, epistemology, ethics, aesthetics.  There is little agreement on epistemology.  I deny rationality for instance, but support empiricism.  My hand exists, and I know it.  Not quite Descartes, but I think more valid than "I think, therefore I am".  I find my body more convincing than my mind.  I don't agree with Descartes on the "I am" either.  Thinking is iffy.  The "I am" depends on more modern views of psychology (multiple personalities).
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