Author Topic: Socrates, One of the Earliest "Cultural Marxists"?  (Read 637 times)

Offline Jason Harvestdancer

Re: Socrates, One of the Earliest "Cultural Marxists"?
« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2018, 11:18:21 PM »
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My aren't you ambitious.  I have been re-reading The Republic and some others, these past couple years.  Don't forget Xenophon's version ... his Apology and his Symposium.  They have a contrast to the versions by Plato.

I am forgetting Xenophon's version.  I'm interested in the common theme of Plato's Socrates.

If I'm going to branch out, I might as well include Aristophanes' version.
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Offline Baruch

Re: Socrates, One of the Earliest "Cultural Marxists"?
« Reply #16 on: October 13, 2018, 03:14:37 AM »
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I am forgetting Xenophon's version.  I'm interested in the common theme of Plato's Socrates.

If I'm going to branch out, I might as well include Aristophanes' version.

You are the one true voice of reason here.  You must keep away most of the time, for sanity's sake.

There is a whole debate, on the early Plato vs the later Plato.  Plato's agenda was quite different from that of Socrates.

I would enjoy you posting on this, in the philosophy section, if you are so inclined.

The Euthyphro is congenial to atheists in a way that the Phaedo is not.

Just getting done with a revision/review on ancient Greek (language).

To what extent do you see, the common Greek culture of that time, as being important framing?  Aka diachronic.  Or do you take the modern synchronic view (and thus assume Plato's forms are real).
« Last Edit: October 13, 2018, 03:19:53 AM by Baruch »
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Offline Jason Harvestdancer

Re: Socrates, One of the Earliest "Cultural Marxists"?
« Reply #17 on: October 13, 2018, 01:51:13 PM »
There's a lot of questions in there that, even though I've read through them before, I'm not ready to answer.  I will give this much.  Plato's Socrates was a metaphysical essentialist.  I'm an epistemological essentialist.  I do not agree that Plato's forms are real.
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Offline Baruch

Re: Socrates, One of the Earliest "Cultural Marxists"?
« Reply #18 on: October 13, 2018, 09:01:14 PM »
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There's a lot of questions in there that, even though I've read through them before, I'm not ready to answer.  I will give this much.  Plato's Socrates was a metaphysical essentialist.  I'm an epistemological essentialist.  I do not agree that Plato's forms are real.

I understand what you said.  As far as Socrates goes, it all depends on what Mystery Cult he may be belonged too, Orphic or Eleusis or nothing.  Plato learned his metaphysics from Archytus, who learned it from Pythagoras.  Socrates' elenchus however resembles Parmenides (and a named dialog of that name) ... but Parmenides himself was something of a hierophant in the style of Pythagoras.
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Offline Cavebear

Re: Socrates, One of the Earliest "Cultural Marxists"?
« Reply #19 on: October 14, 2018, 05:38:04 AM »
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My aren't you ambitious.  I have been re-reading The Republic and some others, these past couple years.  Don't forget Xenophon's version ... his Apology and his Symposium.  They have a contrast to the versions by Plato.

Right.  And let's not forget...

"Socrates, who himself was apparently gifted with precognitive perception, attributed his abilities to the aid of a personal daemon, which then meant demigod and not (evil) demon. In the Theagetes, Plato makes Socrates say:

By favour of the Gods, I have, since my childhood, been attended by a semi-divine being whose voice from time to time dissuades me from some undertaking, but never directs me what I am to do. You know Charmides the son of Glaucon. One day he told me that he intended to compete at the Nemean games. I tried to turn Charmides from his design, telling him, "While you were speaking, I heard the divine voice. Go not to Nemea." He would not listen. Well, you know he has fallen."

Yeah, that sure seems rational...
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