Author Topic: Having to die one day...  (Read 5391 times)

Offline Hijiri Byakuren

  • ULC Minister, Honorary Doctor of Divinity
  • Jacuzzi Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5520
  • Total likes: 2211
  • That's DOCTOR Hijiri, to you!
    • Sargon Lore
Re: Having to die one day...
« Reply #45 on: August 15, 2018, 12:30:43 AM »
When it comes to death, I fear the journey more than the destination. Once I actually am dead, I will be in a state of unconsciousness and thus unable to care. A dreamless sleep, basically. The process of getting there... might be less than pleasant. Hopefully I die like my grandfather: peacefully in his sleep. Not screaming, like the passengers in his car.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Speak when you have something to say, not when you have to say something.

Re: Having to die one day...
« Reply #46 on: August 15, 2018, 01:49:16 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
That's all faith ever was, wishful thinking. But if it gets someone through the rough patches of life I don't have a problem with it.
As I said, My point of view.
Wishful thinking?
Perhaps.
Blind faith?
On the contrary, ample evidence.
Believing there is no afterlife where one's consciousness will hunt your acts in your Earthly life?
Blind faith also?
Perhaps.
AS I say, the Human Mind, what an incredible entity if it has nothing to do with evolution.
if it does, what a waste!
Evolution, the religion whereby one believes your children more human, and your parents more ape, than you!

The Human Mind, if it has nothing to do with Evolution...What an incredible entity...
If it does, what a waste!

Atheism, what a wonderful religion, where one believe to believe is erroneous.

Re: Having to die one day...
« Reply #47 on: August 15, 2018, 02:12:01 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
...Hopefully I die like my grandfather: peacefully in his sleep. Not screaming, like the passengers in his car...
Hilarious!!
 :evil: :grin: :smiley:
This is the best one ever!!!
Evolution, the religion whereby one believes your children more human, and your parents more ape, than you!

The Human Mind, if it has nothing to do with Evolution...What an incredible entity...
If it does, what a waste!

Atheism, what a wonderful religion, where one believe to believe is erroneous.

Offline Shiranu

Re: Having to die one day...
« Reply #48 on: August 15, 2018, 02:54:17 AM »
I'm sorry, but how does evolution tie into wasting a brain?

All the brain is is an extension of the universe that is capable of perceiving itself. The only waste of a brain is letting it lose it's wonder for the universe; be it through a wonder for science and understanding or a wonder for that which is beautiful and feels good (or preferably, both).

It is rather a waste of a brain to ponder the afterlife, about what will happen when the brain shuts off. Instead of enjoying the present, of being aware of the present and the fact that everything is connected, fixation on the afterlife reinforces the false notion that "I", as a unique entity, exists and distracts your brain.

"You" are just a mass of sensations, nothing more. Or rather, nothing less, because there is nothing more miraculous than that. Your sense of sight, smell, hearing, seeing, touch, taste, thought... these are not something seperate from you but rather they ARE you. There is nothing more "real" than your sensations at any given moment of the present, and we should do everything in our power to not be distracted from that, and we certainly shouldn't instead live in the future.

Live your life as a good person, regardless of if their is an afterlife or not, because it feels good. If God is good and just, then you have nothing to fear. If he is not... then no matter what, you are enslaved to his whims. If he does not judge you on the quality of your character than heaven is an arbitrary crap shoot... You may be the most righteous Christian in the world, but if he is neither good, merciful or just you are just as likely to be judged a sinner as anyone else.


Unlike most atheists you will find here, I'm not opposed to theological thought or doctrine. I'm only opposed to doctrine that is judgemental or hateful, which unfortunately is prevalent in organized religion (even my preferred theology, Buddhism, has violent terrorists amongst it's ranks who are still devout Buddhists).


It's best to examine the universe as best you can and decide for yourself what is the "right way"; the only universal truth is that we are all in this together and we will get much further supporting one another than tearing each other down.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2018, 02:58:05 AM by Shiranu »
Quod est inferius, est sicut quod est superius.
Et quod est superius, est sicut quod est inferius.

Re: Having to die one day...
« Reply #49 on: August 15, 2018, 06:54:58 AM »
I like the way you decide about what's around you Shiranu.
You are very analytical in your thinking.

And you have all right in saying that evolution surely should tie in with the brain.

But this is not what I mean by conscientiousness, I specifically mentioned "The Mind".
You perhaps know the story about the professor who said that God does not exist, because we can not prove God with the use of our senses.
And a student who asked the professor if one can detect the professors' mind?
The conclusion made by the student was that the Professor was mindless!

And it is true that the above argument does not prove the existence of God, nor the absence of the Mind.
However, I do find the mind of the human not simply chemical and electrical impulses working like a massive computer with 100 billion cells with 100 000 synapses each, making it the best ever mechanical electrical storage mechanism known to man.
It is 9 to 10 000 times faster than a computer chip, and much more refined. Transistors in microchips interacts on 3 connections, whilst the neuron does so with 100 000 connections interacting with others just as grand.

Now comes the question.
How much of our lives are preprogrammed to journey through the world?
The programming contains only instructions to what our bodies need to live.
The rest are learned.

But these experiences are not equal in different humans, but differ to create different characters.
why?
Because of individual perceptions on the meaning of language.
The language I refer to is not the oral one we grew up with, but our understanding of the things around us, say a watch.
Now, if I refer to a watch, I see it in my mind. Is this what is in my brain?
No, it is not physical, but a mental picture.
If I look at an advert, I will see a picture of a watch, but the one in my mind does not have all the finer details as if it is a picture, therefore I recognize the object, but do not keep the picture as the version of my memory, because the one in my mind is a general picture that can include any type of watch.
I then see the watch is $99.00.
The picture I see of the money, is one of mathematics, and not paper with change.

The question is, how does my brain interpret these physical things, even though it is a print of ink?
I will say... Language...

It is language that defines us as Human.
we can communicate with our minds and relay it in words and gestures.
We can receive this choices of words from each other and interpret it in our minds.

And where does this thing, language come from?

From the first humans?
Can Evolution really have shaped our Brains, to create a thing called Language that is intelligent, guided, and superior to the Brain itself?

If Yes, then why did the Great apes not develop a language?
Not just the primitive gesturing undistinguished from other animals' achievements, but Language?

Because they do not have a Mind.

Therefore, the Mind is an entity separate from the Brain.
and therefore, my claim.
If the Mind has nothing to do with evolution, it is a wonderful creation.
If it is only a product of unguided and blind processes, what a waste!


Evolution, the religion whereby one believes your children more human, and your parents more ape, than you!

The Human Mind, if it has nothing to do with Evolution...What an incredible entity...
If it does, what a waste!

Atheism, what a wonderful religion, where one believe to believe is erroneous.

Re: Having to die one day...
« Reply #50 on: August 15, 2018, 07:18:58 AM »
I also thought of Evolution versus creation as the reasons for humans to exist.

There might be more choices than just the 2 I will mention, but lets look at it from this perspective.

If we are nothing more than the product of long durational unguided, blind, and mechanical processes, then we are only things with no right to have feelings and can not call our-self by a name as an character or individual.
WE are, so to say, only food to the strongest, or we are the ones that may feed on the weaker.
If so, there is no rights, and we must follow our basic instincts, deny art and culture, forget about writing and singing, copulate, leave the female to attend to the offspring, kill if need be, steal, eat, have sex, even rape if need.
This is what one does if one think there is nothing more to the Human existence.

However, when one believes in being a creation of a Creator, the factor of accountability is a given.
simple understanding between Evolution and Creation is that in the mind set of creation, one have to accept that the fellow human is also part of the Creators' work, and by damaging such a thing, will be an insult to the Creator just as willfully damaging your neighbor's car will be to him.

Therefore, to embrace the thought of Creation, one is undermining Evolutionary thought, and creating a moral knowing there will be accountability for our actions.

However, to embrace Evolution, well... why not just take what you want as does an animal?
There is anyway so many people on this earth, the sooner we thin yourself out, the better.
rape, steal, be gay, swing, whore, make whores, kill, lie, cheat!!!
Why not?
If we die, we die!

And dont tell me that Atheists have this high moral standards and somehow I need to place Atheism in a bad light.

Atheism has no morals, and people embrace atheism because of their nature.
Because of what they like to do, their vices!

Any atheist that say they adhere to some moral code, are attempting lie to them-self.

Or, accept that you are wasting your time, and go out and be the strongest.


Evolution, the religion whereby one believes your children more human, and your parents more ape, than you!

The Human Mind, if it has nothing to do with Evolution...What an incredible entity...
If it does, what a waste!

Atheism, what a wonderful religion, where one believe to believe is erroneous.

Offline SGOS

Re: Having to die one day...
« Reply #51 on: August 15, 2018, 08:43:33 AM »
As I've gotten older, I have become less and less concerned with death.  It no longer represents the tragedy I thought it once was.

Offline Mr.Obvious

  • Atheist Mantis
  • Jacuzzi Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3150
  • Total likes: 1767
  • The rules are made up, and the points don't matter
Re: Having to die one day...
« Reply #52 on: August 15, 2018, 09:04:34 AM »
^ this

I'm not that great anyway.
The world won't miss much.
"If we have to go down, we go down together!"
- Your mum, requesting 69 last night.

Atheist Mantis does not pray.

Online Hydra009

Re: Having to die one day...
« Reply #53 on: August 15, 2018, 12:41:34 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Some wise ancient sages thought that the way to catch the true happiness extends through hedonism ie to satisfying our bodily needs... For ex. To eat a delicious meal, or to have a good sex etc. These stimulate the brain to secrete hormones that make us satisfied.

What do you think the better would be? Am i so materialist?
Hedonism as a philosophy is very different from the public conception of hedonism as eating cookies all day.

A good jumping-off point is the concept of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login, human flourishing.  For philosophers like Epicurus, we're talking about long-term well-being - a modest, sustainable, virtuous life free of fear and bodily pain.  He specifically argued against extravagant eating since its unsustainability will lead to future misery.

Online Hydra009

Re: Having to die one day...
« Reply #54 on: August 15, 2018, 01:12:00 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
WE are, so to say, only food to the strongest, or we are the ones that may feed on the weaker.
If that were actually true, we wouldn't have to listen to your ramblings.

Quote
If so, there is no rights, and we must follow our basic instincts, deny art and culture, forget about writing and singing, copulate, leave the female to attend to the offspring, kill if need be, steal, eat, have sex, even rape if need.
If we are indeed animals, then animals have it within them to create art, culture, writing, singing, and civilizations in which stealing, murder, and rape are outlawed.  So your assertion is self-defeating.

Quote
However, when one believes in being a creation of a Creator, the factor of accountability is a given.
Accountability, you say?  So surely, the most pious among us are the most on the straight and narrow - engaging in sins like murder or adultery at a much lower rate than the general populace.  Because otherwise, this argument quickly breaks down.

Quote
simple understanding between Evolution and Creation is that in the mind set of creation, one have to accept that the fellow human is also part of the Creators' work, and by damaging such a thing, will be an insult to the Creator just as willfully damaging your neighbor's car will be to him.
Wow, I never knew Christians had such respect for God's creation.  So you guys are 100% behind ending the current wars and avid about maintaining strict pollution regulations and halting global warming, right?

Quote
However, to embrace Evolution, well... why not just take what you want as does an animal?
One absolutely could.  And get shot or put in jail.  Or, and this is a broader perspective, people may not want to live in a society where stealing is the norm.  Just throwing ideas out.

Quote
And dont tell me that Atheists have this high moral standards and somehow I need to place Atheism in a bad light.
Methinks thou doth protest too much.

Come to think of it, I can't think of a single psychological reason why you'd need to denigrate atheists as animalistic savages to make yourself feel good about your "civilized" religion of goatherders talking about sacrificing turtledoves or massacring the Amalekites or happily dashing the little ones on rocks.

Quote
Atheism has no morals, and people embrace atheism because of their nature.
Yet you seem awfully intent on winning me over, despite asserting that my "belief" in atheism is in my nature.

Quote
Any atheist that say they adhere to some moral code, are attempting lie to them-self.
Sounds like yet another thing you don't believe in due to a psychological need to not believe it.  And yet you think this assertion is convincing to those without that problem.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2018, 04:18:03 PM by Hydra009 »

Offline Baruch

Re: Having to die one day...
« Reply #55 on: August 15, 2018, 01:16:11 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
^ this

I'm not that great anyway.
The world won't miss much.

Space Ghost will miss you, but not your million kids ...

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Baruch

Re: Having to die one day...
« Reply #56 on: August 15, 2018, 01:16:54 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Hedonism as a philosophy is very different from the public conception of hedonism as eating cookies all day.

A good jumping-off point is the concept of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login, human flourishing.  For philosophers like Epicurus, we're talking about long-term well-being - a modest, sustainable, virtuous life free of fear and bodily pain.  He specifically argued against extravagant eating since its unsustainability will lead to future misery.

Epicurus died from constipation ;-)
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Re: Having to die one day...
« Reply #57 on: August 15, 2018, 01:18:17 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Ya know, I'd rather wake up to 72 comely prostitutes.  They'd know what I'd like and how to make it happen!! :))
I'd rather wake up with 72 physicists, cosmologists and chess players - but not Bobby Fischer, he's such a cry baby.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
A.A. Allen,  to Marjoe Gortner, quoted in James A Haught, Covering the Bible Belt II: A Freethinker's Testimony:
"When you can turn people on their head and shake them and no money falls out, then you know God's saying, "Move on, son.""

Online Hydra009

Re: Having to die one day...
« Reply #58 on: August 15, 2018, 01:21:51 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Epicurus died from constipation ;-)
Unfortunately, biology is not beholden to philosophy.  Otherwise, philosophers would be immortal.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2018, 01:23:36 PM by Hydra009 »

Offline trdsf

Re: Having to die one day...
« Reply #59 on: August 16, 2018, 01:52:35 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I'd rather wake up with 72 physicists, cosmologists and chess players - but not Bobby Fischer, he's such a cry baby.
Yeah, I need some scientists, some musicians, some writers to hang out with... and one or two willing studmuffins.  :D
Sir Terry Pratchett, on being told about the theory that the universe is a computer simulation: "If we all get out and in again, would it start to work properly this time?"

 

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk