Author Topic: Time dilation, length contraction, Relativity and the Bible!  (Read 3713 times)

Time dilation, length contraction, Relativity and the Bible!
« on: August 13, 2018, 08:21:38 AM »
Quote from: Quote from: Hakurei Reimu on August 09, 2018, 10:04:36 AM

You, MT, are absolutely convinced in your ability to argue and gather facts, when everyone else sees that you're not doing abysmally. There is an explanation for this difference and that is the Dunning-Kruger effect β€” your ability to self-assess and your ability to perform are the same skill-set. If you are terrible at what you do, you will be terrible at assessing how good a job you're doing. The Dunning-Kruger effect is basically why certification is a thing.

You have been assessed by your more competent peers and have been found wanting. I in particular have given you real tests to assess your ability to do physics, and you have been unable to do them. I still await your calculations showing the viability of the "Biblical" nebular hypothesis.

John Lennox has the same affliction. He is not trained in the very fields that would allow him to competently assess Hawking's ideas. Now, he might be right, but that's a matter for other experts in the field to decide, not him. So far, none of his criticisms have stuck.
Quote from: Mousetrap
Now why dont you and I discuss...say...Time dilation and length contraction?
I do not agree that time can be changed and therefor have a huge problem with The theory of relativity, and special relativity.

I am not even going to pretend that I am a physicist, but I always wondered about the theory of Relativity and Special relativity.
But on the other hand, Hakurei Reimu is a well known and highly accredited scientist with numerous peer reviewed publications behind his name.
He even have the capability to prove John Lennox wrong, and that is one helova achievement.
And HR really hated the claims the MT made on the origins of the Universe.

I then thought it to be a valiant thing to do, and that is to ask, if one travels at the speed of light, does Time dilute?
Now why on Earth would I ask such a thing?
well, one can go on the WWW and listen to what scientists, universities, et all say on the topic, and they all are in agreement.
Time dilutes!

Bring into mind the Twin paradox, and one understands the topic.

Now, bring the Biblical view into time dilution, and it opposes any such a notion.
Quote from: KJV
Gen 1:14  And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

Daniel 7:25  And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Daniel can also be prophetically evaluated, but in reference to changing Times and Laws, can only be interpreated litterally.

I might be wrong, but I claim that Time can not change. No matter at what speed one travel.
Lets see, will HR propose time can be diluted?
If so, we have a nice test to see if the Biblical and scientific view on 'Time' differs from each other.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2018, 10:37:44 AM by Mousetrap »
Evolution, the religion whereby one believes your children more human, and your parents more ape, than you!

The Human Mind, if it has nothing to do with Evolution...What an incredible entity...
If it does, what a waste!

Atheism, what a wonderful religion, where one believe to believe is erroneous.

Offline SGOS

Re: Time dilation, length contraction, Relativity and the Bible!
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2018, 10:35:40 AM »
It's time dilation, not time dilution.

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Offline Baruch

Re: Time dilation, length contraction, Relativity and the Bible!
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2018, 01:03:27 PM »
Sorry, but this is off the deep end even for you ;-)  I hope you have your life preserver handy ;-))

There is very little definition of physics, even of Aristotle, in the Bible.  Jesus is more interested in living things in general, and people in particular ... he shows little interest in materialism.
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Re: Time dilation, length contraction, Relativity and the Bible!
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2018, 01:22:17 PM »
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I might be wrong, but I claim that Time can not change. No matter at what speed one travel.

Why should we give a damn what you believe? You can claim anything you like, to your heart's content. Who gives a shit?
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Offline Hakurei Reimu

Re: Time dilation, length contraction, Relativity and the Bible!
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2018, 06:38:29 PM »
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I am not even going to pretend that I am a physicist, but I always wondered about the theory of Relativity and Special relativity.
But on the other hand, Hakurei Reimu is a well known and highly accredited scientist with numerous peer reviewed publications behind his name.
He even have the capability to prove John Lennox wrong, and that is one helova achievement.
And HR really hated the claims the MT made on the origins of the Universe.
Stop this empty posturing. I don't claim any credentials other than what I have demonstrated. I don't claim to be a physicist. I just don't think that John Lennox is in any position to say Hawking was wrong when Hawking's academic peers and fellows in the field β€”all of whom should know Hawking's ideas and the state of the science better than anyoneβ€” aren't.

Unless Lennox's chosen field of expertise intersects in some way with Hawking's theories, his word is no better than anyone else's. Not even mine, and not even yours.

BTW, you still haven't answered my criticisms about your moronic theories of the origins of the Universe. I think it's time to call a spade a spade and a posturing blowhard a posturing blowhard.

Quote
<snip drabble about time "dilution", lol>

I might be wrong, but I claim that Time can not change. No matter at what speed one travel.
Yes, you are, in fact, wrong. We have observed time dilation happening in particle accelerators, and even in nature. Particle half-lives serve as natural timers, and we observe that more particles survive longer than they have any right to when their speeds are higher.

Experiment trumps assertions every single time.

We've observed time dilation experimentally. Deal with it.
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Re: Time dilation, length contraction, Relativity and the Bible!
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2018, 06:42:08 PM »
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Quote
Experiments at a particle accelerator have confirmed the "time dilation" effect predicted by Albert Einstein's special theory of relativity
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Offline Baruch

Re: Time dilation, length contraction, Relativity and the Bible!
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2018, 08:54:26 PM »
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Yes, particle radioactive half lives (a statistical thing) become longer at higher relative speeds.  With such small particles it is at least possible to accelerate them to nearly the speed of light.  Per quantum mechanics however (and Schrodinger's Cat) you can't predict the half life of individual unstable particles.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2018, 05:02:02 AM by Baruch »
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Re: Time dilation, length contraction, Relativity and the Bible!
« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2018, 02:44:32 AM »
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Stop this empty posturing. ...
Yes, you are, in fact, wrong. We have observed time dilation happening in particle accelerators, and even in nature. Particle half-lives serve as natural timers, and we observe that more particles survive longer than they have any right to when their speeds are higher.

We've observed time dilation experimentally. Deal with it.
Wow, I would have loved to have been there with you to also observe what you saw!
Evolution, the religion whereby one believes your children more human, and your parents more ape, than you!

The Human Mind, if it has nothing to do with Evolution...What an incredible entity...
If it does, what a waste!

Atheism, what a wonderful religion, where one believe to believe is erroneous.

Re: Time dilation, length contraction, Relativity and the Bible!
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2018, 02:46:38 AM »
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Why should we give a damn what you believe? You can claim anything you like, to your heart's content. Who gives a shit?
Wont you love to see how I will be decimated when we start to discuss Time Dilation.
Sorry for the previous spelling mistake where I typed Dilution.
But I like that some atheists volunteer to fix my spelling.
Much appreciated to those who do.
Evolution, the religion whereby one believes your children more human, and your parents more ape, than you!

The Human Mind, if it has nothing to do with Evolution...What an incredible entity...
If it does, what a waste!

Atheism, what a wonderful religion, where one believe to believe is erroneous.

Re: Time dilation, length contraction, Relativity and the Bible!
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2018, 03:26:19 AM »
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Ok, so what we have now is L-ion sent in repetition and measured with Lasar to see where the electrons are at specific points. Now we call this a "Clock".
We push these ions at great speeds, one third C, with accelerators, using magnetism, and hope that it has zero effect on the frequency of the electrons, and if we find a variance, we call this Time dilation.

If we send a wheel at 1000 Km per hour, we will ignore the centrifugal forces on the rubber all around the wheel, measure the touching point on the ground with a pulsating tachograph, see that the clock is standing still, and call it evidence of Time dilation.

Lets get back to what SR and GR says, and show me what Lorentz is all about.
All these scientists are doing is to produce results that are non existent to get more grants to build bigger particle accelerators.

So, what does the Lorentz transformation do?
It only shows you what an observer will see when he looks at a moving object.

It does not verify that any clocks are running slower.
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Evolution, the religion whereby one believes your children more human, and your parents more ape, than you!

The Human Mind, if it has nothing to do with Evolution...What an incredible entity...
If it does, what a waste!

Atheism, what a wonderful religion, where one believe to believe is erroneous.

Re: Time dilation, length contraction, Relativity and the Bible!
« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2018, 05:29:33 AM »
Lets start here.

(Gedanken experiment)

We move the moon a bit closer to the Earth so that it is exactly 300 000 Km from us.
WE place a huge clock on the Earth, and a month or so ago, we placed an exact replicaon the moon and we installed an exact replica on a rocket.
We man this rocket, and we had one of the clock installers on the Moon, staying there as an observer.
With special technology, at exactly 12H00, the rocket accelerated immediately to the speed of Light -1 Km per hour. (to satisfy those that say you can not travel faster than light.)
All these clocks were synchronized when they were built on Earth.

The questions to answer is:
1. When the Rocket left the Earth at 12H00, what did the clock on the Moon say time was seen from Earth?
2. When the Rocket reached 150 000 Km from the earth, what did the clock on the Moon say time was seen from Earth?
3. and what did the clock on the rocket say time was seen from Earth?
4. and what did the clock on the Earth say it was as seen from Earth.?

Evolution, the religion whereby one believes your children more human, and your parents more ape, than you!

The Human Mind, if it has nothing to do with Evolution...What an incredible entity...
If it does, what a waste!

Atheism, what a wonderful religion, where one believe to believe is erroneous.

Offline Baruch

Re: Time dilation, length contraction, Relativity and the Bible!
« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2018, 05:32:39 AM »
There is no universal clock etc ... because the "Sensorium of G-d" from Newton, is fictional.
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luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
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Re: Time dilation, length contraction, Relativity and the Bible!
« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2018, 06:55:22 AM »
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There is no universal clock etc ... because the "Sensorium of G-d" from Newton, is fictional.
True.
However, if we take time as we measure it, eg Radio active decay, Sun Earth Greenwich median, we will still have a measurable medium to determine how far light travels in a second.

In this instance we measure time in seconds with very special clocks that corresponds with the time light travels in a meter.
oh, lets round it up to 300 000 km per sec.
Evolution, the religion whereby one believes your children more human, and your parents more ape, than you!

The Human Mind, if it has nothing to do with Evolution...What an incredible entity...
If it does, what a waste!

Atheism, what a wonderful religion, where one believe to believe is erroneous.

Offline Baruch

Re: Time dilation, length contraction, Relativity and the Bible!
« Reply #13 on: August 14, 2018, 07:08:33 AM »
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True.
However, if we take time as we measure it, eg Radio active decay, Sun Earth Greenwich median, we will still have a measurable medium to determine how far light travels in a second.

In this instance we measure time in seconds with very special clocks that corresponds with the time light travels in a meter.
oh, lets round it up to 300 000 km per sec.

As we define time and distance.  But if you move along the light beam, per Einstein's imagination ... then you see things differently than Slomos like us.  There is a paradox about "c" that I won't go into here.  But suffice it to day, that you can define the speed of light to any finite positive number ... and often in quantum mechanics it is defined to be = 1.  The current metrology is so convinced, that now length is defined in terms of time (atomic vibration as standard) it isn't a palladium meter bar in Paris.
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luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Re: Time dilation, length contraction, Relativity and the Bible!
« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2018, 07:36:53 AM »
True Baruch,
Now, I see it as, when the special rocket departs from the Earth at 1C, at exactly 12H00,
When the rocket left the Earth.
1.the clock on the Moon showed 11H59s59 (because it took the light to travel one second to arrive on Earth, from the clock on the moon)
The Clock on the Earth showed 12H00
and the clock on the Rocket was also at 12H00.
 When the rocket arrived at the moon
2. The clock on the Earth showed 12H00s01
The clock on the Moon showed 12H00s00 Because the light took 1 sec to travel to the Earth and 1 second passed since the rocket departed and arrived on the Moon)
and the rocket's clock also showed 12H00s00. (because the rocket traveled with its light that showed the clock was at 12H00 when it departed.)

When the rocket reached halfway to the Moon,
the Earth's clock said 12H00s0.5
the Moon's clock said 11H59s0.5
and the Rocket's clock said 12H00s00

The above is an example of how we will note what the different time increments are when we look at different time frames.
On earth it will seem as if the clock on the rocket stood still, until it stopped on the Moon.
The clock on the moon will be one second later than ours, and upon the arrival of the rocket on the moon, the clock of the Rocket and Moon will appear to be one second later than Earth's.

If we do the same with this experiment, but this time from the point of view of the observer on the Moon, he will note the times exactly as how we saw the time frame on the rocket and moon. Except that the clock on the rocket will appear to take off from earth at 1 second before noon, but the clock on the rocket will appear to run twice as fast, and will gain 2 seconds until it arrives at 12H00s1 on the moon traveling only one second.

The pilot in the rocket will obviously see something totally different. If he leaves the Earth, he will see the Earth clock showing 12H00s00 untill he gets to the Moon. the Moon clock will show 11H59s01 and will seem to run twice as fast, and upon arrival will show 12H00s01, and would have gained 2 Seconds in one second travelling time.

3 different time frames, 3 different observations, but still, time did not dilate.
One second is still one second.
Evolution, the religion whereby one believes your children more human, and your parents more ape, than you!

The Human Mind, if it has nothing to do with Evolution...What an incredible entity...
If it does, what a waste!

Atheism, what a wonderful religion, where one believe to believe is erroneous.

 

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