Author Topic: Was the internet a mistake?  (Read 671 times)

Re: Was the internet a mistake?
« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2018, 09:44:25 PM »
i remember being shocked when I found out that the lightening rod was condemned by many when it was discovered.  I did a little research on other inventions and conventions society has and is using.  At the inception of any and all new technology, it was regarded as evil, or at least bad.  People just don't like change--any change.  In my grandfathers time, radio was the new big deal.  I remember hearing him talk about it--he wasn't against it, just that he told about when it was a new thing.  Telegraph the same.  As a child I remember when TV was new and a huge wonder.  As surprised as a kid when some I knew regarded it as a bad thing.  I think all inventions or innovations go through the same kind of thing.  As far as the internet, I've been almost blindsided by one element of it.  Splinter groups or small pockets of like minded people can now link together from all areas of the world and become more of a factor than ever before.  The skinhead movement is an example.  It is true that newspapers, writing, phones and such could allow them some ability to expand or reach other groups like themselves.  The internet makes it so much easier than ever before. 

Is the internet a good thing or a bad thing.  As in all things, it is how it is used.  Will it destroy mankind--doubt it.  It has been around for over 20 yrs. but I think it's true and full effect is still decades away.  It is and will be influential and a huge factor in all of our lives.

Cell phones are another innovation that has caught me flatfooted in that I had no idea phones would lead to what we have today--hand held computers.   
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline Baruch

Re: Was the internet a mistake?
« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2018, 11:18:21 PM »
The Internet destroyed the status quo, as did the cell phone, and the status quo doesn't like that.
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Offline PickelledEggs

Re: Was the internet a mistake?
« Reply #17 on: August 09, 2018, 12:29:52 AM »
It was certainly not a mistake. Do you understand how awkward it is loading a porn video in to your vcr is hoping no one walks in the living room when you're jerking off? or how hard it was trying to masturbate to the scrambled Spice channel? Yeah. Fuck no. The internet is great
"Tell Pilate to release the files!!!" - Bill Hicks
"I have an open mind, but not so open that my brains will fall out" -James Randi
"One who truly hates himself cannot love, he cannot place his trust in another." - NGE

Offline Hydra009

Re: Was the internet a mistake?
« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2018, 12:36:34 AM »
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It was certainly not a mistake. Do you understand how awkward it is loading a porn video in to your vcr is hoping no one walks in the living room when you're jerking off?
Plus, the tape wears out after repeated viewings, ruining that Starship Troopers shower scene.

...or so I've been told.

Offline Cavebear

Re: Was the internet a mistake?
« Reply #19 on: August 09, 2018, 04:24:06 AM »
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It was certainly not a mistake. Do you understand how awkward it is loading a porn video in to your vcr is hoping no one walks in the living room when you're jerking off? or how hard it was trying to masturbate to the scrambled Spice channel? Yeah. Fuck no. The internet is great

Never had that problem...  And that isn't what the value of the internet is to me.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: Was the internet a mistake?
« Reply #20 on: August 09, 2018, 06:56:52 AM »
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Never had that problem...  And that isn't what the value of the internet is to me.

Sexless nights? (don't answer that).

People here prefer Trump Doom porn.
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Offline GSOgymrat

Re: Was the internet a mistake?
« Reply #21 on: August 09, 2018, 08:14:35 AM »
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How is it curated?  I'll be honest here, I have absolutely no idea how most of what I link to got their information or decided that was the story to run with.  Sometimes, I'll see a blog post that references a blog post that references another blog post and I start to wonder if the whole thing isn't one giant circle.

And for the more unscrupulous amongst us, I have no doubt that you could slap Hitler quotes on a picture of FDR and post it on social media and get tons of likes and shares.  Please don't, btw.  The world is horrible enough already; don't add to its problems.
Good idea.  How would I go about doing that?

I'm not an expert on this topic but I will share my experience. It is very easy to slip into an echo chamber and I have taken steps to avoid getting too comfortable. My bias creates my echo chamber. I can dip into the information flow and select whatever opinion I agree with, reject any that I don’t and surround my beliefs with intelligent arguments bolstering my position. Online services like Google, Facebook and Amazon ("Recommendations for you in the Kindle store") efficiently give me more of what I want, more bricks to build the echo chamber, and filtering out things it thinks I don't want. This is the danger of an internet that tells you only what it thinks you want to hear-- All it cares about is that you click and keep your eyes on the screen. Here are some of my strategies for dismantling the echo chamber:

- Question everything, especially that which fits into your bias.
- Seek out opposing opinions.
- Avoid groups on the internet that ban people who voice an opposing opinion.
- If you use social media, maintain connections with people with different views and values. This is the only form of social media I currently use and there are people here who don't share my values.
- Set up a news aggregator, such as Feedly, to select stories only from sources you believe are reputable from across the political spectrum. Google doesn't care where the story comes from, only that it thinks you'll click on it. Filter out poor journalism.
- Curate YouTube videos. YouTube is terrible for leading people down the rabbit hole to extremes on almost any topic. Click "Not interested" on videos that aren't useful to update the algorithm.
- Get offline and have conversations with people in person.

I would like to hear ideas from other people.

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“You are the sky. Everything else – it’s just the weather.”

― Pema Chödrön

Re: Was the internet a mistake?
« Reply #22 on: August 09, 2018, 08:48:47 AM »
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I'm not an expert on this topic but I will share my experience. It is very easy to slip into an echo chamber and I have taken steps to avoid getting too comfortable. My bias creates my echo chamber. I can dip into the information flow and select whatever opinion I agree with, reject any that I don’t and surround my beliefs with intelligent arguments bolstering my position. Online services like Google, Facebook and Amazon ("Recommendations for you in the Kindle store") efficiently give me more of what I want, more bricks to build the echo chamber, and filtering out things it thinks I don't want. This is the danger of an internet that tells you only what it thinks you want to hear-- All it cares about is that you click and keep your eyes on the screen. Here are some of my strategies for dismantling the echo chamber:

- Question everything, especially that which fits into your bias.
- Seek out opposing opinions.
- Avoid groups on the internet that ban people who voice an opposing opinion.
- If you use social media, maintain connections with people with different views and values. This is the only form of social media I currently use and there are people here who don't share my values.
- Set up a news aggregator, such as Feedly, to select stories only from sources you believe are reputable from across the political spectrum. Google doesn't care where the story comes from, only that it thinks you'll click on it. Filter out poor journalism.
- Curate YouTube videos. YouTube is terrible for leading people down the rabbit hole to extremes on almost any topic. Click "Not interested" on videos that aren't useful to update the algorithm.
- Get offline and have conversations with people in person.

I would like to hear ideas from other people.

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I like your first three points, and follow them myself.  I learned in advanced history classes in college about primary, secondary and other sources of info.  Then in the Army I learned about intelligence gathering and how all pieces of data has to be crossed checked as much as possible and to rely only on that data that has been tested.  I try to view the internet in the same fashion.  That's why I follow the your first 3 points.  And I don't do any social media.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline Hydra009

Re: Was the internet a mistake?
« Reply #23 on: August 09, 2018, 11:46:55 AM »
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- Question everything, especially that which fits into your bias.
- Seek out opposing opinions.
- Avoid groups on the internet that ban people who voice an opposing opinion.
- If you use social media, maintain connections with people with different views and values. This is the only form of social media I currently use and there are people here who don't share my values.
- Set up a news aggregator, such as Feedly, to select stories only from sources you believe are reputable from across the political spectrum. Google doesn't care where the story comes from, only that it thinks you'll click on it. Filter out poor journalism.
- Curate YouTube videos. YouTube is terrible for leading people down the rabbit hole to extremes on almost any topic. Click "Not interested" on videos that aren't useful to update the algorithm.
- Get offline and have conversations with people in person.
I mostly agree with that.  Curating news aggregators sounds especially appealing.  I've just been using r/news and r/politics and that admittedly does have questionable sources sprinkled throughout.  I sort of already curate youtube with a subscription feed, but I rarely get my news from there, so that's not much of a problem.

My point of contention is actively seeking out opposing opinions.  That sounds well and good on paper - obviously, putting oneself in an echo chamber is a prelude to delusion - but in practice, how would I implement that?  Should I seek out creationists to balance out my assertion that evolution is demonstrably true?  Nazis to balance out my belief in democracy and racial tolerance?  Luddites to balance out my belief in technological progress?  Likely that's not what you meant and admittedly, I'm being intentionally extreme in these comparisons.  But surely you understand what I'm getting at.  Which opposing opinions can I learn from and which are simply wrong?  And how would I gauge that?   How much of a spread of beliefs should I be open to?

Quote
- Avoid groups on the internet that ban people who voice an opposing opinion.
Some would say that this forum is an example of that.  I don't think that's quite true, of course, but it's clear that certain positions are more esteemed here than others.

Offline Baruch

Re: Was the internet a mistake?
« Reply #24 on: August 09, 2018, 12:59:57 PM »
Curating news aggregators ... didn't know you could make hams out of Florida reptiles ;-)

I have a Bernie site, and a rabid Libertarian site.  Both are concerned with political economics (they understand these are separate things).  I see plenty of false stuff on both ... but stuff you will never see from the official party organs (CNN etc).
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Offline GSOgymrat

Re: Was the internet a mistake?
« Reply #25 on: August 09, 2018, 01:24:34 PM »
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My point of contention is actively seeking out opposing opinions.  That sounds well and good on paper - obviously, putting oneself in an echo chamber is a prelude to delusion - but in practice, how would I implement that?  Should I seek out creationists to balance out my assertion that evolution is demonstrably true?  Nazis to balance out my belief in democracy and racial tolerance?  Luddites to balance out my belief in technological progress?  Likely that's not what you meant and admittedly, I'm being intentionally extreme in these comparisons.  But surely you understand what I'm getting at.  Which opposing opinions can I learn from and which are simply wrong?  And how would I gauge that?   How much of a spread of beliefs should I be open to?
Some would say that this forum is an example of that.  I don't think that's quite true, of course, but it's clear that certain positions are more esteemed here than others.

Everyone has to determine their own level of confidence. Using this forum as an example, I'm not interested in listening to someone present pages of Biblical, historical and philosophical evidence that Christianity is the one true religion. I don't believe Jesus Christ was divine and that he died and came back to life. If I knew Jesus today and he died and came back to life three days later I probably would think it was a trick because, in my world, supernatural things don't happen. I'm interested in why people value Christianity, I'm not interested in evidence of the resurrection of Jesus.

Filtering out claims of the supernatural is easy but most topics that I'm interested in are more challenging. I think Trump is reprehensible but I need to recognize my bias when deciding things like whether giving $12 billion in farm subsidies to offset tariffs is a good idea. Free speech was something I believed I had clear thoughts about but having done more research I realize my ideas were not well thought out and I'm currently still trying to sort through the issues. Bottom line, being cognizant of our own bias and the bias of others and compensating is better than allowing computer algorithms to lead one down the primrose path to a walled garden of beautiful echoes.
“You are the sky. Everything else – it’s just the weather.”

― Pema Chödrön

Offline GSOgymrat

Re: Was the internet a mistake?
« Reply #26 on: August 09, 2018, 01:42:55 PM »
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Curating news aggregators ... didn't know you could make hams out of Florida reptiles ;-)

I have a Bernie site, and a rabid Libertarian site.  Both are concerned with political economics (they understand these are separate things).  I see plenty of false stuff on both ... but stuff you will never see from the official party organs (CNN etc).

I don't have CNN but do have USA Today in my feed for mainstream news. I use Reason for the Libertarian perspective. I've never watched televised news and prefer to read or listen to podcasts. I took charts like this into consideration when choosing mainstream news for my feed.





“You are the sky. Everything else – it’s just the weather.”

― Pema Chödrön

Offline Hydra009

Re: Was the internet a mistake?
« Reply #27 on: August 09, 2018, 01:47:41 PM »
^ I was going to make a thread about that (what news you trust and why) using that exact image as a jumping-off point.  :'(
« Last Edit: August 09, 2018, 01:49:35 PM by Hydra009 »

Offline GSOgymrat

Re: Was the internet a mistake?
« Reply #28 on: August 09, 2018, 02:06:02 PM »
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^ I was going to make a thread about that (what news you trust and why) using that exact image as a jumping-off point.  :'(

I'm interested. I've come across people who decry all mainstream media but they never share what news agencies they trust. An acquaintance was ranting about the mainstream media and when I asked where he got his news he said Fox News. When I told him that Fox News is typically the most watched news network, it's the definition of mainstream, he didn't believe me. I have Fox News in my feed for the Trumpster perspective. (BTW, someone has made it their mission in life to tune all the adjustable monitors at my gym to Fox News).


“You are the sky. Everything else – it’s just the weather.”

― Pema Chödrön

Offline Hydra009

Re: Was the internet a mistake?
« Reply #29 on: August 09, 2018, 02:09:51 PM »
Here's an interesting You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login on the state of the internet in the US.

Key highlights:
89% adults use the internet (it has more or less plateaued and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login is fascinating)
internet use is lower for older generations (age 18-27 and 30-49 is almost 100%, while 50-64 is 87% and 65+ is 66%)
the racial divide in internet use has closed
people who are poor, less educated, or more rural are less likely to use the internet
home broadband use has dipped slightly in recent years (coincidentally, smart phone use absent a home broadband connection has increased)
77% of Americans go online daily (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login)

 

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