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Slavery. The Bible and Quran.

Started by Mousetrap, August 03, 2018, 07:13:29 AM

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Mike Cl

Quote from: Mousetrap on August 15, 2018, 10:48:34 AM
no accountability.
That's true.  You have none.  You are simply lost in your world of fantasy based on works of fancy and fiction.  But, hey, you can believe whatever fantasy floats your boat.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

sdelsolray

Quote from: Mike Cl on August 13, 2018, 03:06:41 PM
Do you think droppings and this Peit Strydom are the same?  I don't think so; Strydom, while South Aftican, writes too well to be droppings.

There are many people with the name Piet Strydom in South Africa:

https://www.linkedin.com/pub/dir/Piet/Strydom

popsthebuilder

Quote from: Mousetrap on August 14, 2018, 08:26:14 AM
Please forward me this Mercyfull Quran you are talking about.
The one which was written by Muhammad is definitely not the one you refer too.

Did you see the post on the sex slaves Muhammad had?
do you know about it?
I went over the verses you referrenced and found your take on them to be very opinionated and seemingly based on things taken out of context.

How are you not aware of the Quran promoting mercy over all else if you have truly studied it without preconceived bias?

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Mike Cl

Quote from: sdelsolray on August 15, 2018, 11:35:57 AM
There are many people with the name Piet Strydom in South Africa:

https://www.linkedin.com/pub/dir/Piet/Strydom
Is that their John Smith???  Anyway, I laughed when he said he would never copy from anybody.  But then theists are not the most honest of people.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

Mousetrap

#94
Quote from: popsthebuilder on August 15, 2018, 05:49:00 PM
I went over the verses you referrenced and found your take on them to be very opinionated and seemingly based on things taken out of context.

How are you not aware of the Quran promoting mercy over all else if you have truly studied it without preconceived bias?

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And do not even attempt to use Taquiah with me sir!
There is no mercy in the Quran, except for those that are Muslim.
You definitely have another publication of the Quran that what is used in the Islamic world!

Anyhow, I showed you from your own Quran that you can
go out and decimate non Muslim countries,
rape their women
whilst you behead the husbands.
Sell them as slaves when you are done with them,

Even Mohammad had no less than 9 sex slaves himself!

And Mohammad very conveniently received a revelation from Gabriel (Satan) that he dont have to worry, he should tell these sex slaves whom some of their husbands, he tortured to death to get hold of the Jewish tribe's treasury,

that it is the Best thing to have happened to them, because Allah knows best and Allah is all knowing and Mercyfull!

Tell you what, you can go and show me how I opiniated the verses I posted here, and I will show you that what you try to magically change the understanding of what the Quran verses say,

I will prove to you from Sahee Al Bukhari that this was not how Muhammad taught the first Muslims!


Muhammad taught to attack the innocent tribes in Arabia, (Arab, Jewish, and Christian).
to kill the men,
to ransack the cities for booty,
to rape the women on the spot!
to sell the children as slaves!
to steal and to give him 20% of everything!
This includes the most beautiful women, which he kept as sex slaves for himself!

...AND...Gone is the wonderful magic on a Muslim who interpreted the Quran as Merciful, teaching a religion of Peace!
Try to prove me wrong pal!


All I will do is to show you what Muhammad said and did!

Muhammad was an impostor who pretended to have been a prophet of the Jewish God YHWH!

He gained an army of thugs, rapists, and thiefs who dressed up in white as a great show of pious.

Islam is the greatest show on earth!
Everything is to be explained, and Muhammad must be made out as this best example of what a human can me!

But once we go and learn who Muhammad was, we discover he was a rapist, murderer, slave monger, narcissist, psychopath, sociopath, pedophile, torturer....

But again, Allah knows best and Mo was his prophet!




Evolution, the religion whereby one believes your children more human, and your parents more ape, than you!

The Human Mind, if it has nothing to do with Evolution...What an incredible entity...
If it does, what a waste!

Atheism, what a wonderful religion, where one believe to believe is erroneous.

Mousetrap

Quote from: Mike Cl on August 15, 2018, 07:22:49 PM
Is that their John Smith???  Anyway, I laughed when he said he would never copy from anybody.  But then theists are not the most honest of people.
Dear sir, I am the person you are referring too.
It is not a crime to copy ones own work.

Evolution, the religion whereby one believes your children more human, and your parents more ape, than you!

The Human Mind, if it has nothing to do with Evolution...What an incredible entity...
If it does, what a waste!

Atheism, what a wonderful religion, where one believe to believe is erroneous.

popsthebuilder



Quote from: Mousetrap on August 16, 2018, 02:44:41 AM
And do not even attempt to use Taquiah with me sir!
There is no mercy in the Quran, except for those that are Muslim.
You definitely have another publication of the Quran that what is used in the Islamic world!

Anyhow, I showed you from your own Quran that you can
go out and decimate non Muslim countries,
rape their women
whilst you behead the husbands.
Sell them as slaves when you are done with them,

Even Mohammad had no less than 9 sex slaves himself!

And Mohammad very conveniently received a revelation from Gabriel (Satan) that he dont have to worry, he should tell these sex slaves whom some of their husbands, he tortured to death to get hold of the Jewish tribe's treasury,

that it is the Best thing to have happened to them, because Allah knows best and Allah is all knowing and Mercyfull!

Tell you what, you can go and show me how I opiniated the verses I posted here, and I will show you that what you try to magically change the understanding of what the Quran verses say,

I will prove to you from Sahee Al Bukhari that this was not how Muhammad taught the first Muslims!


Muhammad taught to attack the innocent tribes in Arabia, (Arab, Jewish, and Christian).
to kill the men,
to ransack the cities for booty,
to rape the women on the spot!
to sell the children as slaves!
to steal and to give him 20% of everything!
This includes the most beautiful women, which he kept as sex slaves for himself!

...AND...Gone is the wonderful magic on a Muslim who interpreted the Quran as Merciful, teaching a religion of Peace!
Try to prove me wrong pal!


All I will do is to show you what Muhammad said and did!

Muhammad was an impostor who pretended to have been a prophet of the Jewish God YHWH!

He gained an army of thugs, rapists, and thiefs who dressed up in white as a great show of pious.

Islam is the greatest show on earth!
Everything is to be explained, and Muhammad must be made out as this best example of what a human can me!

But once we go and learn who Muhammad was, we discover he was a rapist, murderer, slave monger, narcissist, psychopath, sociopath, pedophile, torturer....

But again, Allah knows best and Mo was his prophet!

Look friend;

I will gladly show you that the quran teaches mercy. You aren't going to be willing to grasp it, but I can show it to you.

My study and opinion is based on the Quran alone, and not any hadith.

We can discuss the quran, and the Bible.
If you choose to go to other sources them core scripture then I have no desire to speak with you about any of it.

Fact is the quran teaches the Islamic to be merciful to all.

Kinda hard to justify litterally owning physical slaves if one believes the quran is a guidance.

So let me know is you want to speak about the core texts and how they in themselves refute your biased claims.

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Hakurei Reimu

Quote from: Mousetrap on August 14, 2018, 07:44:26 AM
Well, If you suggest that the Israelites might have mistreated their slaves, I can only but agree that they might have done so.
However, you should also know that this was not what the Bible prescribed.
No, you contend that the Bible tells us that biblical slaves should be treated like free men. At best, the Bible reveals that slaves were to be treated like every other slaves were treated in that region in that time period. We know this because they also had laws against the kind of thing the Bible does. But this well treatment has limits, because in the Bible you are allowed to beat your slaves so long as you don't leave any obvious, permanent signs, or as long as they don't die immediately, but I guarantee that if you beat a free man that way, they or their relatives are going to take umbrage with that â€" which might lead them to beat you for the slight, law or no law. To me the Biblical laws sound less like an edict for moral treatment of slaves, and more like a compromise between the needs of the master and the wrath of the Hebrew slave and his free relatives.
Warning: Don't Tease The Miko!
(she bites!)
Spinny Miko Avatar shamelessly ripped off from Iosys' Neko Miko Reimu

Mousetrap

#98
Quote from: popsthebuilder on August 16, 2018, 07:18:08 AM

Look friend;

I will gladly show you that the quran teaches mercy. You aren't going to be willing to grasp it, but I can show it to you.

My study and opinion is based on the Quran alone, and not any hadith...We can discuss the quran, and the Bible....Fact is the quran teaches the Islamic to be merciful to all....Kinda hard to justify litterally owning physical slaves if one believes the quran is a guidance.

So let me know is you want to speak about the core texts and how they in themselves refute your biased claims.

Cool! Lets us start with this verse then!
A prophet must inflict a MASSACRE in a country before he can take slaves! And consume what you took as booty (from this we know why Muhammad and his soldiers raped the women of the tribes who he massacred.
Q 8: 67 â€" 70 It is not for a prophet to have captives [of war] until he inflicts a massacre [upon Allah ‘s enemies] in the land. …
So consume what you have taken of war booty [as being] lawful and good, and fear Allah. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful. (69)


Please explain this one to me.
And while you are busy, tell me again why I should not use Al Bukhari to show you what Muhammad said and did?

Obviously, you want to hide who Muhammad really was.
But, be as it may, tell me what does this verse in the Quran instructed Muhammad and Muslims to do.
Evolution, the religion whereby one believes your children more human, and your parents more ape, than you!

The Human Mind, if it has nothing to do with Evolution...What an incredible entity...
If it does, what a waste!

Atheism, what a wonderful religion, where one believe to believe is erroneous.

Mousetrap

Quote from: Hakurei Reimu on August 16, 2018, 09:14:50 AM
No, you contend that the Bible tells us that biblical slaves should be treated like free men. At best, the Bible reveals that slaves were to be treated like every other slaves were treated in that region in that time period. We know this because they also had laws against the kind of thing the Bible does. But this well treatment has limits, because in the Bible you are allowed to beat your slaves so long as you don't leave any obvious, permanent signs, or as long as they don't die immediately, but I guarantee that if you beat a free man that way, they or their relatives are going to take umbrage with that â€" which might lead them to beat you for the slight, law or no law. To me the Biblical laws sound less like an edict for moral treatment of slaves, and more like a compromise between the needs of the master and the wrath of the Hebrew slave and his free relatives.
http://atheistforums.com/index.php?topic=12877.msg1228190
please follow my challenge to you.
Evolution, the religion whereby one believes your children more human, and your parents more ape, than you!

The Human Mind, if it has nothing to do with Evolution...What an incredible entity...
If it does, what a waste!

Atheism, what a wonderful religion, where one believe to believe is erroneous.

Hakurei Reimu

Warning: Don't Tease The Miko!
(she bites!)
Spinny Miko Avatar shamelessly ripped off from Iosys' Neko Miko Reimu

Unbeliever

God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

sdelsolray

Quote from: Mike Cl on August 15, 2018, 07:22:49 PM
Is that their John Smith???  Anyway, I laughed when he said he would never copy from anybody.  But then theists are not the most honest of people.

Well, with that many Piet Strydom's just on Linkedin in South Africa, the probability is quite high that at least one of them is a lying and disingenuous creationist chump with a side salad of alt-right nonsense with a hate/bigotry/hubris dressing.

Jason Harvestdancer

Isn't there a verse in the New Testament commanding the slaves to obey their masters?
White privilege is being a lifelong racist, then being sent to the White House twice because your running mate is a minority.<br /><br />No Biden, no KKK, no Fascist USA!

Unbeliever

Yeah, but it calls them "servants" instead of "slaves."


Ephesians 6:5
Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;


Colosians 3:22
Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God:
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman