Slavery. The Bible and Quran.

[Mousetrap]

No sense in saying anything else, the discussion has been ended.

Good.
the Bible does not allow slavery.
End of discussion.

[Mousetrap]

you do understand the fact that slavery as been a part of human civilization long before the bible was was written, and those associated with the bible lived in times where slavery was just as much part of their culture. No it didn't invent slavery, but its followers made full use of slaves.

They Might have done just as you say.
But it was not allowed by the Author of the Bible, YHWH.
Actually, the word "Slave" in the bible is a misnomer.
The real meaning should be "Servant", or even "Butler".

However, I find God's hand in the translation to allow every Bible thumper to accuse God of Human rights violation, and just to be caught with their pants down when given proof that they did not read the Bible, but made willful false accusations.

Gotcha!!!

[Mousetrap]

Usually those who have to much to say end up saying little at all

I do apologize it the collection of information was extensive.
You must take into account that Atheists, in particular, likes to attack the Bible with a very superficial Straw Man when they accuse the Bible of, not only inventing slavery, but tries to throw slavery in the face of the Christian that the Bible is inhumane.

And if you do take the time to go through what I found, you will have to agree that this "straw-man-on slavery-as-proof-that-the-Bible-is-false argument", is nothing more than a very superficial and ignorant one indeed.

The choice is again in the 2 hands of the Atheist, if they use this argument in future.

Choice 1- Claim that God does not exist, and attack the Christian by claiming their Bible condones SLAVERY.
Choice 2- Realize that the Bible does not allow slavery and what is described as "slavery" in the Bible, is actually totally different, and should be perceived as Human Rights laws!

Now, any Atheist who dares to choose Choice 1, can be branded as a liar.
If choosing choice 2, this Atheist lost a huge portion of their argument against the claim that there can not be a Christian God!

Gotcha!!!

[Mousetrap]

Usually those who have to much to say end up saying little at all

I would again suggest you take the time and read through what I wrote.
This will give you the opportunity to show me where I lied!

If you dont, then you will have to yield to any claim that the Bible says slavery is OK!
And for the short time I have known you, you dont seem like someone who surrenders this fast!
Or do you?

[Mousetrap]

So, once more eMpTy makes a bold, sweeping claim and crows early victory. Typical.

And once again not a single error in my writing can be proven incorrect.
Oh, please ignore any spelling and grammar errors, that does not count as factual correctness, or errors.
Take my challenge.
If you dare!

[Mousetrap]

Yes but centuries later.
What I meant was that the religions did not forbid slavery when those religions were created.
Apparently they were OK with slavery up to the time when it was abolished.

Even if Christians practiced slavery, it does not mean the Bible was wrong.
Do not get confused, lay the sin at the feet of the offender.

why say, Christians practiced slavery, therefore the Bible is wrong!

I do not understand such an argument at all!

[Mousetrap]

How could I have forgotten.

Exo 21:16  And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death.

No evidence in the Bible that say one can go out and steal, "capture", people such as the Quran instructs Muslims to do.

I herewith conclude that no Atheist can claim otherwise.

[Baruch]

How could I have forgotten.No evidence in the Bible that say one can go out and steal, "capture", people such as the Quran instructs Muslims to do.

I herewith conclude that no Atheist can claim otherwise.

The general trend of the Bible is against slavery, using Jewish people as example of who not to enslave.  A rabbinic value was to gather funds to buy Jewish slaves out of slavery, by buying them from Gentiles.  Jews of course couldn't own Jews, but they could own Gentiles.  But it wasn't a universal creed, but a tribal one.  You have to look to Alexander the Great, Julius Caesar or eastern emperors like Cyrus, Ashoka or Shi Huang Di.  The prototype for Caesar being Alexander, and Alexander's prototype being Cyrus.  The cosmopolitan means world conquest, one ring to rule them all.  How is that not slavery.  Omar who was the first true Caliph, was following the Byzantine emperor, and the Sassanid emperor.

[Unbeliever]

Oh, but it did!
It was also the Christians who fought wars against slavery to end it.

It was also Christians who fought wars for slavery to keep it - and used the Bible to justify it.

[Hakurei Reimu]

And once again not a single error in my writing can be proven incorrect.

That, in itself, is incorrect. Factually incorrect.

Oh, please ignore any spelling and grammar errors, that does not count as factual correctness, or errors.
Take my challenge.
If you dare!

Blackleaf already defeated you, with a biblical passage stating where the Hebrews were to get their slaves. That is not a scripture that... how did you put it?

the Bible does not allow slavery.

The Bible allows slavery. It puts forth rules for obtaining, owning, treatment, and even in tricking a fellow Hebrew in making himself a slave for life. If the bible didn't "allow slavery," it would tell you, "DON'T OWN SLAVES!"

There's no challenge or honor or glory to beating a pigeon. I have nothing to prove, much less to you.

Actually, the word "Slave" in the bible is a misnomer.
The real meaning should be "Servant", or even "Butler".

A servant that you can own in perpetuity, pass on to your children as property, and may even be beaten to within an inch of his life with no consequence so long as he survives one day. Whatever else you choose to call it, to me that sounds like a slave

And what did I tell you about blue, bold, big text?

[Unbeliever]

He probably won't believe Wikipedia, since it isn't inspired by God (but neither was the Bible), but here's what it has to say on the subject:

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[Baruch]

It was also Christians who fought wars for slavery to keep it - and used the Bible to justify it.

Not speaking of anyone here, not about you ... but there are other voices on other web sites ...

Yes, because Gentiles are not Jewish.  They are congenital liars, like their Father who art in Hell (sarc).  Jews aren't virtuous either, in practice.  But that isn't your point, right?  The difference between theory and practice?  On that basis we can throw out all theory, and simply kill all the evil monkeys (oops, self contradiction there, how do we kill evil with evil?).

In theory, in limited scope, Jews do care about virtue.  I am not so sure about Christians or Muslims ;-)  I know for sure that Buddhists can be pacifists, but I am not sure that is a good thing. Hindus aren't pacifists.  The whole reincarnation thing sounds like cheap grace thru rebirth in this world.

Voltaire, the Enlightened One, regarded Jews, Christians and Muslims as semites in practice if not in race.  As did his follower Nietzsche.  He invented modern anti-semitism.  Is some opposition to the Bible (as literature) simply anti-semitism?  It was for Voltaire.  You can stick that Enlightenment right back into the ovens of Auschwitz.

If you have problems with people politics (who does not) ... why isn't this in the politics section?  Why not make a funeral pyre for all copies of Marx's works, and throw the Marxists on top?  It is what people want for other historical or cultural artifacts.

[Hydra009]

what is described as "slavery" in the Bible, is actually totally different

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[Mousetrap]

It was also Christians who fought wars for slavery to keep it - and used the Bible to justify it.

And again, correct.
People used the Bible to justify Slavery.
And as I proved to you, they did have a clue to what the Bible said about slavery.
If I use the Bible to judge the slavers of 300 years ago, they will be executed!

Now, many people uses the Bible to justify their greed, or to even sooth their minds.

Look at the atheists.
They use the Bible to justify their religion and twists it's contents into contradictions and errors, to somehow use this straw puppets as evidence that there is no Creator!

If you want evidence, just go back and see how atheists bashed any humane thought out of the Bible when they said...the Bible condoned, sanctioned and never condemned the practice of slavery.
And as you can see in my very long post, they were wrong indeed!

[Mousetrap]

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Hydra,
Why this link.
What you say is that I am using an argument of special pleading.

But if this is your allegation, you are wrong!

Allow to prove my innocence.

Go back to my post I placed about what the Bible really say about slavery...
take any quoted passage from it...
show everyone here on this forum where I attempted to show that what the Bible say, and I willfully twisted into something to suit my agenda.

Again, The Bible is very clear about slavery.
1. If you "steal" a person, human trafficking, you should get the death penalty.
2. You can buy slaves, but for a period not longer than 7 years, then the slave must be set free, with a severance package.
3. You must pay for this slave in advance to save his / her family from starvation and poverty.
4. You must pay the slave before the sun sets.
5. You can not hurt a slave, for as little as a tooth, you must set him free.
6. If you murder a slave, you will receive the death penalty.
7. If a slave escapes and knocks on your door, you are not allowed to send him back to his owner, but you must protect the slave.
8. a slave isnot allowed to work on the sabbath day.
9. If a slave's period of employment expires, and he does not want to go free, he can remain with his owner.
10. If a female slave was bought with the intend to marry her master, or his son, and she is treated with deceit, she have the right to leave, without compensation to the owner who paid 7 years' worth of wages to her family.
11. If a female slave marries her owner, she is co owner of his estate.
12. No slave is allowed to be sold to other nations except to the tribes of Israel.
13. All slaves enjoy the normal legal status as any other person in Israel.

Come on!!!
I challenge any atheist to prove to me that I lied about the above claims I made.