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Slavery. The Bible and Quran.

Started by Mousetrap, August 03, 2018, 07:13:29 AM

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Unbeliever

God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

Cavebear

Quote from: Mike Cl on August 27, 2018, 04:23:31 PM
Stepping out into a rain storm, I will be hit by a first raindrop.  There will be trillions upon trillions of raindrops within that storm.  But that one in particular hit me first.  I'd say that would be random.  Or do you think that raindrop was guided by the hand of god???

Nothing says "random" better than a raindrop...  I was thinking "snowflakes" earlier, but the term has a political attachment these days. 
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Jason78

Quote from: Mousetrap on August 27, 2018, 06:29:54 AM
Oh, but I did read that verses.
I also quoted it.
But lets see what this verse says,
If you hit your slave, and he dies!
You will be executed!

If he does not die, but recovers, but later dies, you are not guilty of murder.

I see you also conveniently forgot verses 26 onwards.
Now why on earth did you read and refer to only HALF A VERSE AND STOPPED SHORT OF ANY OTHER REFERENCES ON HOW TO TREAT A SLAVE?

If I were to do what you do, I will be called a liar!

Do you agree that you tried to mislead by your actions?

We're discussing how well the people that you own as property ought to be treated.

You've already lost the argument.
Winner of WitchSabrinas Best Advice Award 2012


We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real
tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. -Plato

Baruch

Quote from: Mike Cl on August 27, 2018, 02:49:24 PM
But one has to define what truth is.  Then that person who supplied the definition might be able to tell you what that truth could be.

It isn't what "truthers" or "truthiness" folks think it is.  Those folks are grifters, the very opposite of an honest (truthful) person.  Truth has to do with people, not with ideas.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

Quote from: popsthebuilder on August 27, 2018, 03:06:33 PM
Now you've gone and done it.

Please show evidence for true  randomness in nature or outside of it.

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Unfortunately ... number theory proves you wrong.  Pseudo-random numbers, generated by an algorithm (see Pi) aren't truly random.  Only non-algorithmic (and transcendental) numbers are truly random.  But you can't write one down.  Any numeration implies an algorithm.  However analog nature gets along all the time with these numbers, as well as the algorithmic ones (both pseudo-random and ordered).

What you are trying to articulate ... is an effect which has no cause.  Where cause/effect happens, then events aren't random.  But QM violates this and Relativity twists it.  Cause/effect is a philosophical notion, not a physics idea.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

#230
Quote from: Cavebear on August 27, 2018, 04:28:41 PM
Nothing says "random" better than a raindrop...  I was thinking "snowflakes" earlier, but the term has a political attachment these days.

Chaos, not randomness.  They aren't the same.  Dripping faucet provided one of the simplest examples of a chaotic system.  Please spend a decade on chaotic dynamics and get back to us with your findings.  Chaos does produce pure random numbers, but we can't write them down.  And very simple systems produce chaos (turbulence).
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

#231
Quote from: Mike Cl on August 27, 2018, 04:23:31 PM
Stepping out into a rain storm, I will be hit by a first raindrop.  There will be trillions upon trillions of raindrops within that storm.  But that one in particular hit me first.  I'd say that would be random.  Or do you think that raindrop was guided by the hand of god???

Guided pre-facto or post-facto?  Proper theology says ... post-facto ... which is a circular argument (G-d is history).  Pre-facto is pagan divination.  And that is what physical science does.  Mathematics is pagan divination too, numerology.  Pythagoras was a mage and cult leader.  The primary early use of higher mathematics was astrology.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

popsthebuilder

Quote from: Cavebear on August 27, 2018, 03:18:21 PM
Sperm and ova DNA mix.  Drawing to an inside straight.  Lottery winner.  Intelligent theist.  The dove the hawk caught.  Seeing a meteor just as once glances out a window.  Parking next to an identical car.  I could go on, but you get the idea I hope.
Uhm.....none of that is actually random.

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popsthebuilder

Quote from: Mike Cl on August 27, 2018, 04:23:31 PM
Stepping out into a rain storm, I will be hit by a first raindrop.  There will be trillions upon trillions of raindrops within that storm.  But that one in particular hit me first.  I'd say that would be random.  Or do you think that raindrop was guided by the hand of god???
Even if a first actually meant the first of the storm as opposed to the first that hit you it still in no way shows true randomness.



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popsthebuilder

Quote from: Cavebear on August 27, 2018, 04:28:41 PM
Nothing says "random" better than a raindrop...  I was thinking "snowflakes" earlier, but the term has a political attachment these days.
I know weather seems sorta random with crappy forecasting but it's not.

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popsthebuilder

Quote from: Baruch on August 27, 2018, 07:43:04 PM
Unfortunately ... number theory proves you wrong.  Pseudo-random numbers, generated by an algorithm (see Pi) aren't truly random.  Only non-algorithmic (and transcendental) numbers are truly random.  But you can't write one down.  Any numeration implies an algorithm.  However analog nature gets along all the time with these numbers, as well as the algorithmic ones (both pseudo-random and ordered).

What you are trying to articulate ... is an effect which has no cause.  Where cause/effect happens, then events aren't random.  But QM violates this and Relativity twists it.  Cause/effect is a philosophical notion, not a physics idea.
QM does not say that the cause and effect are one and the same.

Nature doesn't use human constructs or descriptors for it's existence or sustinance.

I have yet to see an example of random.

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Baruch

Quote from: popsthebuilder on August 27, 2018, 08:10:41 PM
QM does not say that the cause and effect are one and the same.

Nature doesn't use human constructs or descriptors for it's existence or sustinance.

I have yet to see an example of random.

Sent from my Nokia 6.1 using Tapatalk

I didn't say that.  Cause/effect is the phlogiston of philosophy.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

popsthebuilder

Quote from: Baruch on August 27, 2018, 08:18:31 PM
I didn't say that.  Cause/effect is the phlogiston of philosophy.
What's a phlogiston?

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Baruch

Quote from: popsthebuilder on August 27, 2018, 08:41:45 PM
What's a phlogiston?

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An early discarded theory of heat.  The thought was, that things that burn, contained an invisible fluid called phlogiston, that was released by burning.  Lavoisier and the theory of oxidation (which includes conventional burning) was shown to be better, 100 years later.  To "save appearances" phlogiston theory became so baroque, it was broken.  As happened to "luminiferous ether" theory 100 years later, being replaced by Relativity.  Unfortunately quantum field theory brought back a new form of "luminiferous ether" that is increasingly baroque but not yet broken.

The phrase "Saving appearances" originally appeared in Paradise Lost by John Milton.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Mike Cl

Quote from: popsthebuilder on August 27, 2018, 08:06:32 PM
Even if a first actually meant the first of the storm as opposed to the first that hit you it still in no way shows true randomness.



Sent from my Nokia 6.1 using Tapatalk
Really?  And Jesus was real?? :)))  Sure, and Bugs Bunny lives next door to you, right???  'True' randomness; doesn't exist for you does it?  God designed everything, so nothing is random.  Sure, Pops, sure.....................and your meds will be coming soon, just hang on, okay!
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?