Author Topic: How Would the Left Describe Islam?  (Read 1344 times)

Online PickelledEggs

Re: How Would the Left Describe Islam?
« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2018, 12:59:40 AM »
I love hearing guys from one group describes the thoughts of someone from a different mindset. It's almost like they can't understand what a hypocrite is
"Tell Pilate to release the files!!!" - Bill Hicks
"I have an open mind, but not so open that my brains will fall out" -James Randi
"One who truly hates himself cannot love, he cannot place his trust in another." - NGE

Offline Baruch

Re: How Would the Left Describe Islam?
« Reply #16 on: August 16, 2018, 05:47:23 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I love hearing guys from one group describes the thoughts of someone from a different mindset. It's almost like they can't understand what a hypocrite is

Britain was aggressive, so why should they complain about other nations?  The Kaiser and Hitler argued that too.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2018, 05:50:47 AM by Baruch »
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Baruch

Re: How Would the Left Describe Islam?
« Reply #17 on: August 16, 2018, 05:48:12 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
They cannot do that.

Theologically, they haven't got a leg to stand on. Jihad is mandated by Allah for every believing Muslim.
Not always by warfare, but by any other means possible.

Furthermore, if they are against jihad, they have deemed to be hypocrites, or worse, apostates.
Those can be killed according to Islamic law. (Quran 4:89)

Since 1948,  11 million Muslim were killed by other Muslims, who were not Muslim enough.

While we in the west only notice the fighting jihadist, there is a lot of other Muslim who are supporting the "extremist" read true believers with money, weapons, moral support, logistics, planning, subterfuge, propaganda, infiltration into establishments, government positions, spying, mass immigration to spread Islam at your expense, dawah, etc. that is not immediately visible to the people. But it exists. Stealth jihad.
Terrorism is just a tiny part of jihad. There is far more happening without you noticing.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Competition is human.  If you can't compete, die already.  Perhaps Europe finally is.
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Atheon

Re: How Would the Left Describe Islam?
« Reply #18 on: August 18, 2018, 02:02:58 AM »
As a leftist, I would describe Islam as "wrong", just as I would describe all religions.
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful." - Seneca

Offline Baruch

Re: How Would the Left Describe Islam?
« Reply #19 on: August 18, 2018, 02:06:52 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
As a leftist, I would describe Islam as "wrong", just as I would describe all religions.

Is that a result of Leftist leanings, or just a co-ideology?  Most here don't agree that atheism is a communist conspiracy ;-)  Usually secular isn't equated to Left.
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Atheon

Re: How Would the Left Describe Islam?
« Reply #20 on: August 18, 2018, 02:26:52 AM »
Religion is generally associated with the right, especially the fundamentalist versions. In the US, the Religious Right influences public policy. Radical Islam is about as far right wing as is possible to be. Religion demands unquestioning obedience to authority, which is a core trait of conservatism.
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful." - Seneca

Offline pr126

Re: How Would the Left Describe Islam?
« Reply #21 on: August 18, 2018, 02:35:14 AM »
There is no such thing as "radical" Islam.

Islam is Islam. 
There was one Muhammad, there is one Quran.
Muhammad and the Quran are Islam.

Edit: There is no "radical" Muslims either.
Just orthodox true believing Muslims following Muhammad (Q 33:21) and the Quran verbatim.


 

« Last Edit: August 18, 2018, 02:41:47 AM by pr126 »
"Propaganda works best when those who are being manipulated are confident they are acting on their free will."
 - Joseph Goebbels

Cognitive-dissonance is fighting for women's rights and LBGT rights while defending Islam and Muslims against "Islamophobia".

Offline SGOS

Re: How Would the Left Describe Islam?
« Reply #22 on: August 18, 2018, 08:38:56 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I'm of the left and I describe it as a fiction--as are all religions.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
The global jihad is also a fiction. Along with the mass migration to colonize Europe.
Clearly a tin foil hat conspiracy.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
He's doing that thing were he says something sarcastically to push you to the opposite conclusion.  It's a very easily-spotted and easily resisted method of psychological manipulation.
Maybe so, although I missed that.  I thought PR was just making an honest mistake of non sequitur: 
    Mike believes Islam is a fantasy
    Therefore Mike believes Jihad is a fantasy
But on further reflection, I think it's more likely that PR was just disregarding Mike, and that his response was intended to point that Jihad is an atrocity just in case no one realized it yet.


Offline pr126

Re: How Would the Left Describe Islam?
« Reply #23 on: August 18, 2018, 09:07:54 AM »
Well, I understand that Islam is a fantasy as it is built on a pack of lies by a mentally disturbed con man (Muhammad) who had frontal lobe epilepsy and was a malignant narcissist.
A warlord, slaver, rapist, child molester, torturer, a pirate - according to the Muslim sources.

However, the problem is that he has 1.6 billion followers and some of those still behave as it was 14 centuries ago still trying to emulate the "prophet".

A significant enough number to make the world unsafe for the rest of us.

That is what most people in the world either ignore or kept silent about.

We are at a point where Islam cannot be criticized, discussed at all in the public square without dire consequences.

"Propaganda works best when those who are being manipulated are confident they are acting on their free will."
 - Joseph Goebbels

Cognitive-dissonance is fighting for women's rights and LBGT rights while defending Islam and Muslims against "Islamophobia".

Online Munch

Re: How Would the Left Describe Islam?
« Reply #24 on: August 18, 2018, 09:12:43 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I love hearing guys from one group describes the thoughts of someone from a different mindset. It's almost like they can't understand what a hypocrite is

and I love seeing people on one political side accusing the opposing political side of being hypocritical when their own side does the same thing.

Offline SGOS

Re: How Would the Left Describe Islam?
« Reply #25 on: August 18, 2018, 09:16:01 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
There is no such thing as "radical" Islam.

Islam is Islam. 
There was one Muhammad, there is one Quran.
Muhammad and the Quran are Islam.

Edit: There is no "radical" Muslims either.
Just orthodox true believing Muslims following Muhammad (Q 33:21) and the Quran verbatim.
I understand this concept, and if we were to agree that Muslims have to be "all in" with regards to a specific holy book or they aren't true Muslims, then we would have to say the same is true of Christianity.  You must be a true believer or you are not a believer.  There wouldn't be many Christians left, they would be sympathizers at best.  The same for Islam.

If Islam is different than Christianity in this fundamental way then you would be correct, and all those hordes coming into Europe would be potential terrorists.  And you could be right about this, but we don't know that because you and I cannot understand what's on everyone else's mind. 

Rather, I tend to think you exaggerate the threat.  This is not saying there is no threat.  You are under attack to be sure, but all secular Europeans aren't about to be murdered yet.  But your lives will change.  You already feel the pressure to comply with Islamic law.  You resist it as any secularist would, just as secularists in America resist a Christian theocracy.

Edit: [Most] Religions all want to change society and seek compliance.  This has been going on for thousands of years.  Western civilization has had a brief respite for the last 100 years, but what we have experienced is an anomaly.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2018, 09:18:52 AM by SGOS »

Offline pr126

Re: How Would the Left Describe Islam?
« Reply #26 on: August 18, 2018, 09:21:32 AM »
Quote
Western civilization has had a brief respite for the last 100 years, but what we have experienced is an anomaly.
Not at all. It has been going on for 14 centuries and still happening.


Recommended reading:

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Quote
The comprehensive history of the role of war and terror in the spread of Islam.

It is taken for granted, even among many Washington policymakers, that Islam is a fundamentally peaceful religion and that Islamic jihad terrorism is something relatively new, a product of the economic and political ferment of the twentieth century. But in The History of Jihad: From Muhammad to ISIS, Islamic scholar Robert Spencer proves definitively that Islamic terror is as old as Islam itself, as old as Muhammad, the prophet of Islam, who said β€œI have been made victorious through terror.”

Spencer briskly traces the 1,400-year war of Islamic jihadis against the rest of the world, detailing the jihad against Europe, including the 700-year struggle to conquer Constantinople; the jihad in Spain, where non-Muslims fought for another 700 years to get the jihadi invaders out of the country; and the jihad against India, where Muslim warriors and conquerors wrought unparalleled and unfathomable devastation in the name of their religion.

Told in great part in the words of contemporary chroniclers themselves, both Muslim and non-Muslim, The History of Jihad shows that jihad warfare has been a constant of Islam from its very beginnings, and present-day jihad terrorism proceeds along exactly the same ideological and theological foundations as did the great Islamic warrior states and jihad commanders of the past.

The History of Jihad: From Muhammad to ISIS is the first one-volume history of jihad in the English language, and the first book to tell the whole truth about Islam’s bloody history in an age when Islamic jihadis are more assertive in Western countries than they have been for centuries. This book is indispensable to understanding the geopolitical situation of the twenty-first century, and ultimately to formulating strategies to reform Islam and defeat radical terror.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2018, 09:25:20 AM by pr126 »
"Propaganda works best when those who are being manipulated are confident they are acting on their free will."
 - Joseph Goebbels

Cognitive-dissonance is fighting for women's rights and LBGT rights while defending Islam and Muslims against "Islamophobia".

Offline SGOS

Re: How Would the Left Describe Islam?
« Reply #27 on: August 18, 2018, 10:03:36 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Western civilization has had a brief respite for the last 100 years, but what we have experienced is an anomaly.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Not at all. It has been going on for 14 centuries and still happening:
Quote
The History of Jihad: From Muhammad to ISIS is the first one-volume history of jihad in the English language, and the first book to tell the whole truth about Islam’s bloody history in an age when Islamic jihadis are more assertive in Western countries than they have been for centuries.
This acknowledges that Western countries have experienced a respite for centuries rather than "the last 100 years," and I wouldn't argue that.

Quote
This book is indispensable to understanding the geopolitical situation of the twenty-first century, and ultimately to formulating strategies to reform Islam and defeat radical terror.
In America, many would like to reform Christianity.  In both Europe and America, we should also be aware that Muslims and Christians are also formulating their own strategies.  Call it evil or just call it a natural aspect of human behavior.  I think it's a reality.

Offline Baruch

Re: How Would the Left Describe Islam?
« Reply #28 on: August 18, 2018, 10:50:01 AM »
Christianity in the US is free aka not Established by the State.  So it takes 1000 forms.  How is that not reform?  But not all reforms are to your liking.  Some will move toward tolerant pluralism, others will move to theocracy (Dominionism and Mormonism).

Marxist progress = Aristotelian teleology with socialism.  It isn't real, and it is intellectually obsolete since Newton.  Capitalist progress = Aristotelian teleology without socialism.  All the ideas of socialism were formulated in ancient Athens, at least as plays, if not realities.  Including Feminism and Pacifism.  How is Cloud Cookoo-land by Aristophanes not a version of John Lennon.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2018, 10:53:36 AM by Baruch »
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Re: How Would the Left Describe Islam?
« Reply #29 on: August 18, 2018, 11:35:52 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
and I love seeing people on one political side accusing the opposing political side of being hypocritical when their own side does the same thing.

I don't see PickledEggs creating thread after thread, putting words in the mouths of Conservatives.
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville

 

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk