Author Topic: Is This Geometric Structure The Theory Of Everything?  (Read 970 times)

Offline Baruch

Re: Is This Geometric Structure The Theory Of Everything?
« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2018, 04:06:50 PM »
Esoteric science that won't be effecting your iPhone design anytime soon ...

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Notice that this is a very fancy version of the Michelson-Morley interferometer, that triggered relativity theory (in many minds anyway).
« Last Edit: July 31, 2018, 04:13:14 PM by Baruch »
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Offline Cavebear

Re: Is This Geometric Structure The Theory Of Everything?
« Reply #16 on: August 01, 2018, 04:03:58 AM »
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Esoteric science that won't be effecting your iPhone design anytime soon ...

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Notice that this is a very fancy version of the Michelson-Morley interferometer, that triggered relativity theory (in many minds anyway).

Gravitational waves have been detected.  Get over it.  Actually, my question is "what speed do they travel"?  If gravitational waves "travel", why not instantaneously?

Let's suppose a bunch of matter suddenly appeared (out of a severely rotating black hole or something - don't quibble).  How long would the gravity of the spewed matter take (being not at the black hole) to affect/register on a nearby star?  Light speed?  Instantaneously? Some time less than light speed?  And why?
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: Is This Geometric Structure The Theory Of Everything?
« Reply #17 on: August 01, 2018, 07:02:53 AM »
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Gravitational waves have been detected.  Get over it.  Actually, my question is "what speed do they travel"?  If gravitational waves "travel", why not instantaneously?

Let's suppose a bunch of matter suddenly appeared (out of a severely rotating black hole or something - don't quibble).  How long would the gravity of the spewed matter take (being not at the black hole) to affect/register on a nearby star?  Light speed?  Instantaneously? Some time less than light speed?  And why?

You misread the video <sarc> ... you watched it.  This supports the remarkable work done.  But it won't be in your cell phone anytime soon.

Well, they said in the video, that gravitational waves propagate at "c" ... the speed of light.  There are several reasons why this has to be (one reason is the graviton (not found yet) is zero rest mass).  Yes, if a black hole, ran into our Sun, beside turning the lights out, it would disrupt the local gravity of the solar system (in particular if it continued moving in the direction it was already going).  This would make a pulse of gravitational waves at that collision moment, though not as powerful as seen in the example (less massive case).  The LIGO would detect it the same time as when we would see the Sun go dark.

Less than the speed of light?  You are probably thinking of index of refraction.  Light goes a bit slower thru transparent matter than it does in the vacuum.  The ratio in speeds is the index of refraction.  The index of refraction of the vacuum is 1.0.  For material objects it is 1+.  Since it is vacuum between the Sun and the Earth, then in our example there would be no slow down.
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Offline Cavebear

Re: Is This Geometric Structure The Theory Of Everything?
« Reply #18 on: August 01, 2018, 07:16:05 AM »
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You misread the video <sarc> ... you watched it.  This supports the remarkable work done.  But it won't be in your cell phone anytime soon.

Well, they said in the video, that gravitational waves propagate at "c" ... the speed of light.  There are several reasons why this has to be (one reason is the graviton (not found yet) is zero rest mass).  Yes, if a black hole, ran into our Sun, beside turning the lights out, it would disrupt the local gravity of the solar system (in particular if it continued moving in the direction it was already going).  This would make a pulse of gravitational waves at that collision moment, though not as powerful as seen in the example (less massive case).  The LIGO would detect it the same time as when we would see the Sun go dark.

Less than the speed of light?  You are probably thinking of index of refraction.  Light goes a bit slower thru transparent matter than it does in the vacuum.  The ratio in speeds is the index of refraction.  The index of refraction of the vacuum is 1.0.  For material objects it is 1+.  Since it is vacuum between the Sun and the Earth, then in our example there would be no slow down.

Yeah, I know about light being slowed down through various media and all that.  My question is WHY gravity takes any time to operate.  And just saying lightspeed is "the limit" doesn't work.  Until we know how gravity really works, we can't tell the speed.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: Is This Geometric Structure The Theory Of Everything?
« Reply #19 on: August 01, 2018, 07:23:35 AM »
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Yeah, I know about light being slowed down through various media and all that.  My question is WHY gravity takes any time to operate.  And just saying lightspeed is "the limit" doesn't work.  Until we know how gravity really works, we can't tell the speed.

That is explained in quantum relativity.  Entanglement in quantum theory.  You can get instantaneous change (a paired photon, has indeterminate status, until the other member of the pair is measured ... before that they are both indeterminate).  The classical view of omniscient objectivity is the sound of one Schroedinger Cat dying.  However, you can't use entanglement to communicate (unfortunately).

Everything else, change moves at "c" or less (see relativity theory).  It gets deep.  Feynman said, anyone who claims to understand quantum theory (he meant the relativity kind) doesn't know.  The simplest level is the Dirac Equation, and I posted on that.  Crickets of course.  Velocity isn't ... velocity.  There is phase velocity and group velocity, even without the relativity complication.

Yes, that is the problem with explanation.  Gravity explains falling apples, but what explains gravity?  Well we had Newton's explanation (but he admitted it wasn't an ultimate explanation).  And we have Einstein's explanation (he tried to find an ultimate explanation and failed).  With epistemology, if not the world, it is professors (not turtles) all the way down.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2018, 07:25:49 AM by Baruch »
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Offline Cavebear

Re: Is This Geometric Structure The Theory Of Everything?
« Reply #20 on: August 01, 2018, 07:30:38 AM »
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That is explained in quantum relativity.  Entanglement in quantum theory.  You can get instantaneous change (a paired photon, has indeterminate status, until the other member of the pair is measured ... before that they are both indeterminate).  The classical view of omniscient objectivity is the sound of one Schroedinger Cat dying.  However, you can't use entanglement to communicate (unfortunately).

Everything else, change moves at "c" or less (see relativity theory).  It gets deep.  Feynman said, anyone who claims to understand quantum theory (he meant the relativity kind) doesn't know.  The simplest level is the Dirac Equation, and I posted on that.  Crickets of course.  Velocity isn't ... velocity.  There is phase velocity and group velocity, even without the relativity complication.

Yes, that is the problem with explanation.  Gravity explains falling apples, but what explains gravity?  Well we had Newton's explanation (but he admitted it wasn't an ultimate explanation).  And we have Einstein's explanation (he tried to find an ultimate explanation and failed).  With epistemology, if not the world, it is professors (not turtles) all the way down.

Gravity might upset the entire applecart.  I'll wait.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline trdsf

Re: Is This Geometric Structure The Theory Of Everything?
« Reply #21 on: August 01, 2018, 01:41:45 PM »
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Gravity might upset the entire applecart.  I'll wait.
It's in the Einstein field equations that c is the limiting velocity for gravitational waves as well as electromagnetic — although I couldn't say exactly where.  Now, there is apparently no upper limit on the acceleration due to gravity; the definition of a black hole's event horizon is the surface at which escape velocity is exactly the speed of light.  That's different from a gravitational wave, however, which is the periodic (wave-like) deformation of space radiating out from a massive object undergoing acceleration.  The Earth in its orbit continually sends out gravitational waves because an orbit is a state of constant acceleration.  However, the amount of energy carried away is so small, the sun will have long since burned out before Earth's orbit could decay.

Basically, think of the gravitational wave speed as being the speed at which the information about the gravitational field strength is carried, like a lightwave speed is the speed at which the information about the light's frequency is carried.
Sir Terry Pratchett, on being told about the theory that the universe is a computer simulation: "If we all get out and in again, would it start to work properly this time?"

Re: Is This Geometric Structure The Theory Of Everything?
« Reply #22 on: August 01, 2018, 01:46:26 PM »
This may shed some light:


Quote
The speed of light is often cited as the fastest anything can travel in our universe. While this might be true, the speed of light is the EFFECT and not the CAUSE of this phenomenon. So what's the cause? On this week's episode of Space Time, Matt helps explain what the speed of light REALLY is and why it’s the cosmic speed limit of our universe!


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Offline SGOS

Re: Is This Geometric Structure The Theory Of Everything?
« Reply #23 on: August 01, 2018, 02:01:29 PM »
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This may shed some light:
After 4 minutes of that I gave up realizing it was unlikely that I would get any smarter.  Maybe I would have, but I was getting more lost as the video went on, and I lacked the fortitude to continue.  No matter.  I will continue on surviving like the rest of the idiots in the world.  And I can still be happy.

Offline Baruch

Re: Is This Geometric Structure The Theory Of Everything?
« Reply #24 on: August 01, 2018, 07:27:42 PM »
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Gravity might upset the entire applecart.  I'll wait.

Just don't jump off the top of your barn, expecting to fly.  Unless you can produce tachyons, gravitons and other unseen particles, in a practical way.  My favorite is the magnetic monopole.  Half a magnetic field, looking for a opposite partner (not gay).
« Last Edit: August 01, 2018, 07:32:27 PM by Baruch »
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Offline Baruch

Re: Is This Geometric Structure The Theory Of Everything?
« Reply #25 on: August 01, 2018, 07:30:59 PM »
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After 4 minutes of that I gave up realizing it was unlikely that I would get any smarter.  Maybe I would have, but I was getting more lost as the video went on, and I lacked the fortitude to continue.  No matter.  I will continue on surviving like the rest of the idiots in the world.  And I can still be happy.

It has been explained, in Einstein terms, in previous posts for years now, right here.  But once quantum theory showed up (who ordered this, the physicists said!) you have to learn a lot more than classical physics, to come up to par.  Only specialists of specialists can do it.  And then they disagree once they get to the bleeding edge (aka that is how theoretical work goes).

i still have trouble with phase velocity vs group velocity, and you have that in classical physics (not even relativistic).  And to understand messaging, you have to include information theory.  Whew!
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Offline Cavebear

Re: Is This Geometric Structure The Theory Of Everything?
« Reply #26 on: August 04, 2018, 03:58:29 AM »
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It has been explained, in Einstein terms, in previous posts for years now, right here.  But once quantum theory showed up (who ordered this, the physicists said!) you have to learn a lot more than classical physics, to come up to par.  Only specialists of specialists can do it.  And then they disagree once they get to the bleeding edge (aka that is how theoretical work goes).

i still have trouble with phase velocity vs group velocity, and you have that in classical physics (not even relativistic).  And to understand messaging, you have to include information theory.  Whew!

There is probably some college student wondering why light speed is the best measure.  And she may be right.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: Is This Geometric Structure The Theory Of Everything?
« Reply #27 on: August 04, 2018, 08:57:47 AM »
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There is probably some college student wondering why light speed is the best measure.  And she may be right.

You do think out of your box, sometimes ;-)
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Re: Is This Geometric Structure The Theory Of Everything?
« Reply #28 on: August 04, 2018, 01:55:20 PM »
Like Savoir Faire, quantum mechanics is everywhere! :-P



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"The Republicans went from Abraham Lincoln to Sarah Palin to Donald Trump. No wonder they don't believe in evolution."
Any Borowitz

Offline Cavebear

Re: Is This Geometric Structure The Theory Of Everything?
« Reply #29 on: August 12, 2018, 06:29:37 AM »
I can understand the shadow of a tesseract.  Beyond that, no go.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

 

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