Author Topic: Back to Spinoza ... which is how I fit in here ...  (Read 155 times)

Offline Baruch

Back to Spinoza ... which is how I fit in here ...
« on: July 22, 2018, 05:30:33 PM »
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A advanced review of who Spinoza was.
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Offline Baruch

Re: Back to Spinoza ... which is how I fit in here ...
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2018, 05:51:07 PM »
A long but accurate lecture on early US history ...

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At the end, the quote from Lincoln in 1855, reveals he was a Russian agent ;-)
« Last Edit: July 22, 2018, 05:52:48 PM by Baruch »
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Offline Cavebear

Re: Back to Spinoza ... which is how I fit in here ...
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2018, 11:34:56 AM »
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A advanced review of who Spinoza was.

I am NOT listening to 17 minutes of  some philosopher's drivel!
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: Back to Spinoza ... which is how I fit in here ...
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2018, 01:15:14 PM »
That is OK, you aren't the only one here.  Better than 60 minutes of it, right?
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Offline Cavebear

Re: Back to Spinoza ... which is how I fit in here ...
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2018, 01:19:42 PM »
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That is OK, you aren't the only one here.  Better than 60 minutes of it, right?

Yeah.  How about a paragraph comparing Spinoza to Kant?  I scored 100% on Kant on a survey.  You DO know more about philosophy than I do.  Really!  Quite frankly, I'm more into Darwin and Sagan!
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: Back to Spinoza ... which is how I fit in here ...
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2018, 01:21:34 PM »
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Yeah.  How about a paragraph comparing Spinoza to Kant?  I scored 100% on Kant on a survey.  You DO know more about philosophy than I do.  Really!  Quite frankly, I'm more into Darwin and Sagan!

I bet you Kant do that either ;-)

Kant etc came after Spinoza, so they were partially derivative.  Leibniz was the primary source for Spinoza stuff among Gentiles.
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Offline Cavebear

Re: Back to Spinoza ... which is how I fit in here ...
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2018, 01:35:16 PM »
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I bet you Kant do that either ;-)

Kant etc came after Spinoza, so they were partially derivative.  Leibniz was the primary source for Spinoza stuff among Gentiles.

"According to Kant, the human understanding is discursive. ‘Discursivity’ means, among other things, that the content of our world directed thoughts must be given and that what we think cannot be generated by thought itself. For we can only think by means of concepts and concepts are general, abstract representations that do not allow for intellectual singular representations. Now in the Critique of Judgment Kant describes a kind of understanding that is not discursive but intuitive. And he does so by means of discurs
ive representations, i.e. concepts. The paper explores the question what a non-discursive understanding essentially is
and whether it is at all possible to give an account of such a non-discursive cognitive capacity by means of discursive concepts."

"Spinoza on the “third kind of knowledge” (and Kant’s likely critique) Beth Lord, University of Aberdeen.  For Spinoza, intuition is the “third kind of knowledge”. Whereas knowledge of the first and second kinds (imagination and reason) starts from particular sensations, properties, and things, and moves up to generalizations, universals, and commonalities, the third kind of
knowledge starts with the essences of things, as they are known by God, and moves “down” to particulars. There are many uncertainties about intuition, including whether Spinoza thinks this way of knowing is possible during our lifetimes. In this paper I will introduce Spinoza’s concept of intuition and some of these problems. I will indicate Kant’s most likely critique of
Spinoza’s concept: his critique of the notion that there could be a kind of human knowledge
that deduces particular things from essences.

You can see how that causes us differences!  I do not accept Spinoza's "intuition" as a viable source of human knowledge but DO like Kant's suggestion that observable facts matter.

Did you like that? 
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: Back to Spinoza ... which is how I fit in here ...
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2018, 08:07:22 PM »
Better than nothing ... so nihilists need not kibitz.

Descartes influenced Spinoza, Leibniz and Kant.  In ethics, theories of mind, dualism and monism; Spinoza influenced Kant directly, or indirectly thru Leibniz.  Of course Spinoza influenced others besides Leibniz and Kant … and Leibniz and Kant influenced many others.

Like other artists, borrowing isn't plagiarism, it is admiration.

Notice my sources don't even talk about epistemology (which Spinoza mostly borrowed from Descartes).  The pantheism of Spinoza in particular is more closely aligned with Kabbalah, and goes back many centuries in many cultures.  Most definitely an un-Biblical deity, purely rationalist, more an overarching principle than a person.

« Last Edit: July 25, 2018, 10:04:34 PM by Baruch »
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Offline Cavebear

Re: Back to Spinoza ... which is how I fit in here ...
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2018, 03:08:40 AM »
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Better than nothing ... so nihilists need not kibitz.

Descartes influenced Spinoza, Leibniz and Kant.  In ethics, theories of mind, dualism and monism; Spinoza influenced Kant directly, or indirectly thru Leibniz.  Of course Spinoza influenced others besides Leibniz and Kant … and Leibniz and Kant influenced many others.

Like other artists, borrowing isn't plagiarism, it is admiration.

Notice my sources don't even talk about epistemology (which Spinoza mostly borrowed from Descartes).  The pantheism of Spinoza in particular is more closely aligned with Kabbalah, and goes back many centuries in many cultures.  Most definitely an un-Biblical deity, purely rationalist, more an overarching principle than a person.

Kant escaped Spinoza...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: Back to Spinoza ... which is how I fit in here ...
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2018, 01:23:27 PM »
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Kant escaped Spinoza...

You Kant stop commenting ;-)

There are parts of Kant I like.  He tried to marry rationalism and empiricism, but produced the child of Frankenstein's monster and Bride fo Frankenstein's monster.
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Offline Cavebear

Re: Back to Spinoza ... which is how I fit in here ...
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2018, 04:12:44 AM »
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You Kant stop commenting ;-)

There are parts of Kant I like.  He tried to marry rationalism and empiricism, but produced the child of Frankenstein's monster and Bride fo Frankenstein's monster.

I don't really care much about philosophers.  I don't care about "the meaning of life" (we live, we relate, we die).  But I took a couple online tests and I ended up 100% Kant and 75% Hume.  Spinoza wasn't even on my list.  So I read about Kant and it mostly was "yeah, OK".  No big whomp.  Some parts of Hume made sense too.  Obviously (75%). 

So I read some Kant.  It was like taking a class in office management.  "Don't be stupid", "Plan things".  Obvious stuff.  Never worried about it since.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: Back to Spinoza ... which is how I fit in here ...
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2018, 08:50:04 AM »
Know where that URL is?  I took it too, but didn't remember my results.
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