Author Topic: The methodological emptiness of rationalism and the arrogance of certainty  (Read 452 times)

Re: The methodological emptiness of rationalism and the arrogance of certainty
« Reply #30 on: October 04, 2018, 01:54:32 PM »
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But I found this interesting site, [http://airshipdaily.com/blog/10-philosophers-summed-up-in-a-single-sentence} that said Kant basically said "Good decision-making is based on understanding the universal moral impact of your choices, and if you don’t consider this, you are likely a selfish jerk or possibly Ayn Rand."

Yep, they nailed me...  Except I would say "ethical" rather than "moral".


LOL! I like the one they have for Plato:

Quote
10. Plato

Poetry is deceptive, god-awful artifice that is totally perverted and completely skews our sense of reality — and while we’re at it, democracy is total bullshit and should be overthrown by philosopher kings who will lord over cities with their big, pulsating brains full of knowledge and righteousness forever. (Shout-out to Socrates: Miss you, bro.)


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"The Republicans went from Abraham Lincoln to Sarah Palin to Donald Trump. No wonder they don't believe in evolution."
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Offline Cavebear

Re: The methodological emptiness of rationalism and the arrogance of certainty
« Reply #31 on: October 04, 2018, 02:15:57 PM »
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LOL! I like the one they have for Plato:

Yeah they got Plato for a fact.  One thing the Greek philosophers never figured out was that democracy meant "everyone" and that slavery was sort of a bad idea...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: The methodological emptiness of rationalism and the arrogance of certainty
« Reply #32 on: October 04, 2018, 07:36:17 PM »
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Yeah they got Plato for a fact.  One thing the Greek philosophers never figured out was that democracy meant "everyone" and that slavery was sort of a bad idea...

Greece was a bad idea.  Ask Persia.
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Offline Cavebear

Re: The methodological emptiness of rationalism and the arrogance of certainty
« Reply #33 on: October 07, 2018, 03:26:18 AM »
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Greece was a bad idea.  Ask Persia.

Well democracy had to start somewhere.  And it seems likely it had to start where there was not already and an existing central Govt.  Otherwise, they wouldn't have had the freedom to create so really radical ideas.  Govts HATE radical ideas.  Only a bunch of unruly ungoverned peoples could have thought up the idea.  And then try to kill each other off to make it work for a while. 
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: The methodological emptiness of rationalism and the arrogance of certainty
« Reply #34 on: October 07, 2018, 04:10:41 AM »
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Well democracy had to start somewhere.  And it seems likely it had to start where there was not already and an existing central Govt.  Otherwise, they wouldn't have had the freedom to create so really radical ideas.  Govts HATE radical ideas.  Only a bunch of unruly ungoverned peoples could have thought up the idea.  And then try to kill each other off to make it work for a while.

Correct.  A strong central government like Egypt, Babylon etc and no Greek culture.  Their geography perhaps more than their ethnicity, is to blame, that they didn't have the benefit of totalitarianism (except for Sparta).
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Offline Cavebear

Re: The methodological emptiness of rationalism and the arrogance of certainty
« Reply #35 on: October 07, 2018, 04:32:24 AM »
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Correct.  A strong central government like Egypt, Babylon etc and no Greek culture.  Their geography perhaps more than their ethnicity, is to blame, that they didn't have the benefit of totalitarianism (except for Sparta).

Almost correct.  Ethnicity had nothing to do with it.  It was isolated geography, mostly.  And the Spartans developed their slavery anti-hedonism on their own.  Don't read a lot of history, do you?
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: The methodological emptiness of rationalism and the arrogance of certainty
« Reply #36 on: October 07, 2018, 08:44:21 AM »
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Almost correct.  Ethnicity had nothing to do with it.  It was isolated geography, mostly.  And the Spartans developed their slavery anti-hedonism on their own.  Don't read a lot of history, do you?

I am listening to a interview with a biography author as I type.  You are so ...
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Offline Cavebear

Re: The methodological emptiness of rationalism and the arrogance of certainty
« Reply #37 on: October 07, 2018, 10:06:17 AM »
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I am listening to a interview with a biography author as I type.  You are so ...

And, curiously, I am listening to a couple of atheists making mincemeat of theist callers to their show.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: The methodological emptiness of rationalism and the arrogance of certainty
« Reply #38 on: October 07, 2018, 11:33:26 AM »
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And, curiously, I am listening to a couple of atheists making mincemeat of theist callers to their show.

Yawn.  Dumb theists vs dumb atheists.  Though not all are.  The smart person of any kind, is hard to find.  To the young, all the old arguments are new.
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Offline Cavebear

Re: The methodological emptiness of rationalism and the arrogance of certainty
« Reply #39 on: October 07, 2018, 12:27:27 PM »
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Yawn.  Dumb theists vs dumb atheists.  Though not all are.  The smart person of any kind, is hard to find.  To the young, all the old arguments are new.

The atheist arguments were old because the theist arguments were old.  The challengers were the theists andd none of them made a dent in the atheist arguments.  And had the atheists made a weak argument, I would have called them on it with no hesitation.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: The methodological emptiness of rationalism and the arrogance of certainty
« Reply #40 on: October 07, 2018, 01:37:12 PM »
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The atheist arguments were old because the theist arguments were old.  The challengers were the theists andd none of them made a dent in the atheist arguments.  And had the atheists made a weak argument, I would have called them on it with no hesitation.

Yes, atheism as we know it dates to 500 BCE.  Old enough.
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Offline Cavebear

Re: The methodological emptiness of rationalism and the arrogance of certainty
« Reply #41 on: October 07, 2018, 02:12:22 PM »
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Yes, atheism as we know it dates to 500 BCE.  Old enough.

Atheism predates all theisms.  Before there was any theism, there had to be no theism.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: The methodological emptiness of rationalism and the arrogance of certainty
« Reply #42 on: October 07, 2018, 02:43:38 PM »
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Atheism predates all theisms.  Before there was any theism, there had to be no theism.

Looking to ... before writing ... isn't empirical.  Cave man graves disprove your view.  Before we were human, we had no culture, so no religion.  But using pre-human hominids as examples ... is irrelevant.  Certainly once you had riverine early civilizations, religion got a state-subsidized boost.
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Offline Cavebear

Re: The methodological emptiness of rationalism and the arrogance of certainty
« Reply #43 on: October 07, 2018, 02:46:28 PM »
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Looking to ... before writing ... isn't empirical.  Cave man graves disprove your view.  Before we were human, we had no culture, so no religion.  But using pre-human hominids as examples ... is irrelevant.  Certainly once you had riverine early civilizations, religion got a state-subsidized boost.

Theism is a thought structure created by humans.  Therefore there had to be a time before it.  QED...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: The methodological emptiness of rationalism and the arrogance of certainty
« Reply #44 on: October 07, 2018, 02:47:31 PM »
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Theism is a thought structure created by humans.  Therefore there had to be a time before it.  QED...

For bears and other non-humans.
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