Author Topic: Biblical contradictions.  (Read 12357 times)

Offline Hakurei Reimu

Re: Biblical contradictions.
« Reply #45 on: July 23, 2018, 06:32:53 PM »
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You should actually add one more Christian faith.
Atheism!
Atheism is a philosophical position about a single claim. It doesn't even approach the status of a 'faith', let alone christian faith.

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1. You see, all these Christian denominations are not, as you would like it to be perceived as each and every one totally different, but very much the same.
They all believe in the Bible, the crucifixion , the Resurrection, and ascension of Jesus. But, obvious an atheist will call Mormon, JW, and Unitarian "Christian" to further their confusion to sooth their concience!
Well, are Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses and Unitarians christians?

Mormons believe in all the Bible stuff, as far as it goes; they just tack on more cosmology and a few scriptures not recognized by you lot.

Jehovah's Witnesses have their own Bible, but it's not as if their bible is not based on non-biblical sources. While they have some rather extreme views not concordant with your own, they do believe that Jesus died and will come back. That's why they knock on your door in those dippy monkey suits.

Unitarians are more difficult to pin down, because while they do believe in the Bible, they don't believe in its inerrancy because they realize that the authors of the Bible were human and could be in error. I also find no evidence that Unitarianism means that Unitarians cannot believe in the crucifixion, the resurrection, or ascention of Jesus. "Unitarian" is not a designation of a particular religion or branch, but a whole movement of denominations I would call "Christian."

So I don't see any problem with lumping in these people with Christians. Their beliefs are not out of line with the normal variance of belief in Christian denominations. You fellas argue over more divisive stuff, yet you all still call yourself Christians.

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2. Since when are different denominations evidence of Biblical inerrancy?
They are evidence of at least Biblical vaguarity. The fact that you can all read much the same text and come up with so many disparate opinions on what is important for salvation is a good sign that someone is using your Bible as a ventriloquist dummy.

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Number 2
1. Christians have never claimed that God sort of dictated the Bible, as Muslims claim about the Quran.
You have obviously never met some of the more fundamentalist twits I have encountered. I have heard people declare, and heard with my own two little miko ears, that they believed that the Bible was dictated by God. "That's why they cawl it 'God's Word,' rahght?"

So, yeah, don't pretend to speak for all Christians when you claim that they "have never" claimed that the Bible was dictated by God. Opinions on that very much vary.
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Re: Biblical contradictions.
« Reply #46 on: July 23, 2018, 06:36:13 PM »
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Imo, The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe was more grounded in reality.
All the novels of CS Lewis and the bible have one profound thing in common--they are all works of fiction.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline Baruch

Re: Biblical contradictions.
« Reply #47 on: July 23, 2018, 09:38:50 PM »
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All the novels of CS Lewis and the bible have one profound thing in common--they are all works of fiction.

Yes, and literature critics will argue over their merit.  Sorry Constantine chose Jewish literature as his hobby.  Then y'all could complain about some other fiction that was used to bolster a terrible tyranny.
Zampa xiquihto.  Amo nimitzcuamachilia.
Say it again.  I don't understand you.

Re: Biblical contradictions.
« Reply #48 on: July 24, 2018, 10:48:32 AM »
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Atheism is a philosophical position about a single claim. It doesn't even approach the status of a 'faith', let alone christian faith.
Why then do you believe in it?
Evolution, the religion whereby one believes your children more human, and your parents more ape, than you!

The Human Mind, if it has nothing to do with Evolution...What an incredible entity...
If it does, what a waste!

Atheism, what a wonderful religion, where one believe to believe is erroneous.

Re: Biblical contradictions.
« Reply #49 on: July 24, 2018, 11:05:57 AM »
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Well, are Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses and Unitarians christians?

Mormons believe in all the Bible stuff, as far as it goes; they just tack on more cosmology and a few scriptures not recognized by you lot.
Wrong again.
The Mormons does not believe in the Bible at all.
They believe in the Book of Mormon that was a "Revelation by the angel Moroni" to Joseph Smith. The Book of Mormon also deny that the Bible is correct.
The only reason why the Mormons claim the Bible is not true, and therefore totally corrupted, is that the Book of Mormon is in total contrast to everything the Bible says.
No Mormon will read the Bible.

Quote from: Hakurei Reimu
Jehovah's Witnesses have their own Bible, but it's not as if their bible is not based on non-biblical sources. While they have some rather extreme views not concordant with your own, they do believe that Jesus died and will come back. That's why they knock on your door in those dippy monkey suits.
Wrong again.
The terminology Christian actually denotes the worshiper of Jesus.
JW's do not believe in the Trinity, Jesus as God as the Word of YHWH, the Resurrection.
Therefore, on the 3 accounts of being a christian, they by default are only using the name Christian.

Quote from: Hakurei Reimu
Unitarians are more difficult to pin down, because while they do believe in the Bible, they don't believe in its inerrancy because they realize that the authors of the Bible were human and could be in error. I also find no evidence that Unitarianism means that Unitarians cannot believe in the crucifixion, the resurrection, or ascention of Jesus. "Unitarian" is not a designation of a particular religion or branch, but a whole movement of denominations I would call "Christian."
However, they do not believe in the Trinity, and Jesus being divine.
They have one of 3 right.


Quote from: Hakurei Reimu
So I don't see any problem with lumping in these people with Christians. Their beliefs are not out of line with the normal variance of belief in Christian denominations. You fellas argue over more divisive stuff, yet you all still call yourself Christians.
They are evidence of at least Biblical vaguarity. The fact that you can all read much the same text and come up with so many disparate opinions on what is important for salvation is a good sign that someone is using your Bible as a ventriloquist dummy.
You have obviously never met some of the more fundamentalist twits I have encountered. I have heard people declare, and heard with my own two little miko ears, that they believed that the Bible was dictated by God. "That's why they cawl it 'God's Word,' rahght?"

So, yeah, don't pretend to speak for all Christians when you claim that they "have never" claimed that the Bible was dictated by God. Opinions on that very much vary.
To perceive Unitarians, Mormons and JW's as Christian, is as good as to claim Atheism a sect.
If one is incapable to distinguish between Christian and non Christian, on the grounds of believing in Jesus as God, and the Trinity by default because Jesus is God, then one errors in mixing all religions in one pot, and elevating Atheism to a level of observation of "all religions that is the same".
This is where I find atheism. Thinking because they can claim all religions is the same, they have an argument against the Bible.
Well, you do not, and are opening a hole as wide as an wagon can turn, for me to pass through.
Evolution, the religion whereby one believes your children more human, and your parents more ape, than you!

The Human Mind, if it has nothing to do with Evolution...What an incredible entity...
If it does, what a waste!

Atheism, what a wonderful religion, where one believe to believe is erroneous.

Offline Baruch

Re: Biblical contradictions.
« Reply #50 on: July 24, 2018, 01:11:29 PM »
If most atheists in the US are former Christians, then yes, they should be considered a Church Of Former Christians Who Didn't Convert To Anything Else.  Not all people here fit that category, but it works for some.  The only ones who ever never part of any religion, are truly free of any unconscious religious bias.
Zampa xiquihto.  Amo nimitzcuamachilia.
Say it again.  I don't understand you.

Re: Biblical contradictions.
« Reply #51 on: July 24, 2018, 04:47:57 PM »
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Let me give you one such a contradiction

Let me give you another :

Mark 16:18
They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Go drink a litre of sulphuric acid.   Or go play with a few king cobras.   Post the results of your findings here.
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tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. -Plato

Online Hydra009

Re: Biblical contradictions.
« Reply #52 on: July 24, 2018, 05:06:36 PM »
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Let me give you another :

Mark 16:18
They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Go drink a litre of sulphuric acid.   Or go play with a few king cobras.   Post the results of your findings here.
Now, now, you don't test god.

...except for that one time where they did.  And probably a couple of other times.

1 Kings 18:22 Then Elijah said to them, “I am the only one of the Lord’s prophets left, but Baal has four hundred and fifty prophets. 23 Get two bulls for us. Let Baal’s prophets choose one for themselves, and let them cut it into pieces and put it on the wood but not set fire to it. I will prepare the other bull and put it on the wood but not set fire to it. 24 Then you call on the name of your god, and I will call on the name of the Lord. The god who answers by fire—he is God.”

Offline Hakurei Reimu

Re: Biblical contradictions.
« Reply #53 on: July 24, 2018, 06:43:15 PM »
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Why then do you believe in it?
I don't. It's the philosophical position I have taken, due to the complete lack of evidence for any gods, including the Abrahamic god. "Atheist" is simply a label indicating that I hold this position. I don't have to believe in atheism to be atheist, any more than I have to believe in humanity to be human.

Now, you've been told this before, yet you still characterize atheism as a belief. You, sir, are a rude person.

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Wrong again.
The Mormons does not believe in the Bible at all.
They believe in the Book of Mormon that was a "Revelation by the angel Moroni" to Joseph Smith. The Book of Mormon also deny that the Bible is correct.
Wrong. They say that the Bible is incomplete. That is different from not being correct. I mean, why do they have their own bible translation based on the original scriptures if they didn't believe in it? They wouldn't. They'd just say that the Bible is wrong and be done with it.

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The only reason why the Mormons claim the Bible is not true, and therefore totally corrupted, is that the Book of Mormon is in total contrast to everything the Bible says.
There is nothing in their additional book that contradicts what is said in the Bible. It's just a new interpretation of that Bible.

So, it's just a No True Scottsman fallacy.

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Wrong again.
The terminology Christian actually denotes the worshiper of Jesus.
JW's do not believe in the Trinity, Jesus as God as the Word of YHWH, the Resurrection.
I've read their literature, and the only thing true here is that they don't believe in the Trinity, and hence, that Jesus was God. They do, however, think that Jesus was "the Word" of YHWH in his pre-human existence, and that he did resurrect and ascended to heaven. So, Jesus was worthy of worship as the Word of God, and acts as the mediator between God and humanity, Jesus's eternal children; they just don't think of Jesus as God himself.

Trinitarianism was not a part of your requirements for being a Christian, nor was any techincal divinity required. So, Moving the Goalposts fallacy.

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However, they do not believe in the Trinity, and Jesus being divine.
They have one of 3 right.
Again, moving the goalposts. Your Christianity definition required neither a Trinity nor a divine Jesus.

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To perceive Unitarians, Mormons and JW's as Christian, is as good as to claim Atheism a sect.
Well, if you're going to call atheism a religion, then I demand all the rights and privilages thereof, including building my monuments right next to those Ten Commandments monuments you guys keep insisting on putting up, and putting Monday school in Sunday school.

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If one is incapable to distinguish between Christian and non Christian, on the grounds of believing in Jesus as God, and the Trinity by default because Jesus is God, then one errors in mixing all religions in one pot, and elevating Atheism to a level of observation of "all religions that is the same".
Again, No True Scottsman. I don't consider either a divine Jesus or a Trinity to be critical beliefs in order to be called Christian. Unitarians of all sects, and there are a lot of them —including the first ever Protestant sect (Lutherians)— would take umbrage at you taking away their Christian cards.

So, yeah, you don't get to decide who is Christian and who isn't.

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This is where I find atheism. Thinking because they can claim all religions is the same, they have an argument against the Bible.
Well, you do not, and are opening a hole as wide as an wagon can turn, for me to pass through.
Only if you're the road-runner.

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Offline Cavebear

Re: Biblical contradictions.
« Reply #54 on: July 25, 2018, 08:29:09 AM »
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Why then do you believe in it?

Atheism is a LACK of a claim.  You can't really comprehend that, can you? 

Would you have a problem if I said I don't belief in framulgramits"?  Its like that.  Do you believe in Odin or Orisis?  Its like that too.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Re: Biblical contradictions.
« Reply #55 on: July 25, 2018, 10:30:43 AM »
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Atheism is a LACK of a claim.  You can't really comprehend that, can you? 

Would you have a problem if I said I don't belief in framulgramits"?  Its like that.  Do you believe in Odin or Orisis?  Its like that too.
Odin or Orisis... no evidence!
YHWH, lots of evidence!
Evolution, the religion whereby one believes your children more human, and your parents more ape, than you!

The Human Mind, if it has nothing to do with Evolution...What an incredible entity...
If it does, what a waste!

Atheism, what a wonderful religion, where one believe to believe is erroneous.

Offline Cavebear

Re: Biblical contradictions.
« Reply #56 on: July 25, 2018, 10:59:54 AM »
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Odin or Orisis... no evidence!
YHWH, lots of evidence!

Oh PLEASE DO give us the evidence OF THE DIFFERENCES!  I can't wait.  I need the mental exercise to respond... 

This should be GOOD!
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Re: Biblical contradictions.
« Reply #57 on: July 25, 2018, 11:05:32 AM »
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OK, so lets continue with the list of so called contradictions as an Atheist told me to go and look at as evidence that the Bible is false.
I posted one as evidence to show that the so called contradiction on the count of the soldiers of Israel and Judah was wrong, and I will now work down the list.
Might take a year, but I want to test the accusations to ensure that no atheist can tell me that the Bible is wrong.

Lets get going with number 241, 242, 243, and 244.
This all has to do with the incapability of Atheists that cant read what the Bible says.

241 Contradictory Creation accounts:
What this accusation claim is that there are 2 different creation accounts in Genesis 1 and 2.
The composer of this so called contradiction carries on to say that Gen 1 describes one Creation story where God created everything in 7 Days, but in Genesis chap 2 it gives a second account of the chronological events.
 242. Were Plants created before man?
243. Were the foul created from water?
244. Were animals created before man?

Well, this is not so much a contradiction, but the poor reading of these 2 chapters.
When I initially researched on this claim, I immediately saw the problem, or shall I say, no problem.

These 2 chapters are not a chronology following each other!
Chapter I describes the creation of the 7 days, and chapter 2 the events of the 6th day when God created man!
I think the firs time someone compiled this so called contradiction was with  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

When we then read the 2 chapters, we find that God describes the 7 days, and discuss the 6th day in detail.
In chapter 1 God made animals and then Adam.
In chapter 2 God describes how he make Adam, then again created animals and brought it to Adam to name them.
Different animals, different day.
No contradiction.

Plants were created on the 3rd day, but God planted a garden for Adam on the 6th day.
The plants was still not mature on the 6th day, that's why God made a garden.
Different plants, different day.
No contradiction.

In the first chapter God made foul from water, on the 2nd day he made the foul He brought to Adam, form soil.

Different animals, different day.
No contradiction.

 
Evolution, the religion whereby one believes your children more human, and your parents more ape, than you!

The Human Mind, if it has nothing to do with Evolution...What an incredible entity...
If it does, what a waste!

Atheism, what a wonderful religion, where one believe to believe is erroneous.

Offline Cavebear

Re: Biblical contradictions.
« Reply #58 on: July 25, 2018, 11:11:51 AM »
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OK, so lets continue with the list of so called contradictions as an Atheist told me to go and look at as evidence that the Bible is false.
I posted one as evidence to show that the so called contradiction on the count of the soldiers of Israel and Judah was wrong, and I will now work down the list.
Might take a year, but I want to test the accusations to ensure that no atheist can tell me that the Bible is wrong.

Lets get going with number 241, 242, 243, and 244.
This all has to do with the incapability of Atheists that cant read what the Bible says.

241 Contradictory Creation accounts:
What this accusation claim is that there are 2 different creation accounts in Genesis 1 and 2.
The composer of this so called contradiction carries on to say that Gen 1 describes one Creation story where God created everything in 7 Days, but in Genesis chap 2 it gives a second account of the chronological events.
 242. Were Plants created before man?
243. Were the foul created from water?
244. Were animals created before man?

Well, this is not so much a contradiction, but the poor reading of these 2 chapters.
When I initially researched on this claim, I immediately saw the problem, or shall I say, no problem.

These 2 chapters are not a chronology following each other!
Chapter I describes the creation of the 7 days, and chapter 2 the events of the 6th day when God created man!
I think the firs time someone compiled this so called contradiction was with  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

When we then read the 2 chapters, we find that God describes the 7 days, and discuss the 6th day in detail.
In chapter 1 God made animals and then Adam.
In chapter 2 God describes how he make Adam, then again created animals and brought it to Adam to name them.
Different animals, different day.
No contradiction.

Plants were created on the 3rd day, but God planted a garden for Adam on the 6th day.
The plants was still not mature on the 6th day, that's why God made a garden.
Different plants, different day.
No contradiction.

In the first chapter God made foul from water, on the 2nd day he made the foul He brought to Adam, form soil.

Different animals, different day.
No contradiction.

I knew this would be good.  I don't even care about the answers (none of which responded to my question about the differences BETWEEN various religions.  It's that you are obviously just getting this nonsense from some biblical site and you claim it as "your research"!

LOL!
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Re: Biblical contradictions.
« Reply #59 on: July 25, 2018, 01:48:38 PM »
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Let me give you another :

Mark 16:18
They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Go drink a litre of sulphuric acid.   Or go play with a few king cobras.   Post the results of your findings here.
Yeah the signs of a true believer!
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“Let others pride themselves about how many pages they have written; I'd rather boast about the ones I've read.”
― Jorge Luis Borges

 

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