Author Topic: Biblical contradictions.  (Read 1718 times)

Re: Biblical contradictions.
« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2018, 08:02:34 PM »
Wow Mousetrap.  Getting all literalist on us eh?  Do you have children?  Do you beat them black and blue to cleanse the sin?  Do you make sure your slaves obey your commands?  Lived in a fish for a few days and got burped up?  Talked to any donkeys?

Cripes.  Just stop. 

Re: Biblical contradictions.
« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2018, 08:16:15 PM »
I often use this quote when confronted by believers in the literal "word of God."


Quote from: Mark Twain
You believe in a book that has talking animals, wizards, witches, demons, sticks turning into snakes, burning bushes, food falling from the sky, people walking on water, and all sorts of magical, absurd and primitive stories, and you say we are the ones that need help?
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"Which do I prefer? Sex or chess? It depends on the position."
Boris Spassky

Re: Biblical contradictions.
« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2018, 08:33:05 PM »
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I often use this quote when confronted by believers in the literal "word of God."
Love Twain.  It has been awhile for me, but have you read Letters From Earth?  It is written by satan to Michael in heaven; satan was banished from heaven for a thousand years or a celestial day.  It is a great read!
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline Hakurei Reimu

Re: Biblical contradictions.
« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2018, 10:29:13 PM »
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This is what you will find in the Bible about the count of the men in Israel and Judah
How many fighting men were found in Israel?
<snip>
Hu, the Bible describes the exact amount of soldiers in Israel pulled up for battle! And you thought it was an error.
Numerical alchemy. You just kept adding factors like your commanders until you got the right number. Why not add the palace gardeners and cooks to your roster?

Here's the big clue why this number is bullshit:
Xerxes I marched on and nearly conquered Greece with an army about as big as David's. The Achaemenid Empire stretched from India to Asia minor (Turkey). If David's Israel was able to field an army this strong, then there would literally be no stopping them from conquering the entire region. Instead, Babylon (BTW, the direct predescessor to the Achaemenid Empire) considered the Isrealites a nuisance instead of a credible threat.

Furthermore, the Persian Immortals were the standing army and imperial guard to Xerxes I, and they were 10,000 strong. That's a standing army. 10,000 soldiers for ~5,500,000 km², compared to Israel's (and Judea's) supposed 300,000 soldiers for 20,770 km², and we're to believe that this little podunk nation had a standing army of 300,000 men, about 30 times larger than the standing army of Xerxes?

No, more like 100 imperial guards/standing army for both Israel and Judea, which makes hash of your estimations, even if we believe that there were actually 800,000 battle-ready men on less than 20,770 km² of near-desert land.

A smaller clue is that it's EXACTLY 1,100,000 men total. Not approximate, exact. Really? There was no hundred and something people remaining, making it not exactly 1,100,000 men? Rubbish.

And obviously you think 1,100,000 is an exact number, otherwise, you wouldn't have jumped through your numerical hoops to get one.

Quote
But lets continue with the count of Judah!
How many fighting men were found in Judah?
<snip>
Wow, the Bible describes exactly the amount of soldiers in Judah also!
Again, you have a permanent army that is many times that of the much, much larger Achaemenid Empire not a few centuries later. And that makes for an additional 1,600,000 man army in combined forces. You can easily conquer any other nation in the region with an army this big.

No, these numbers simply aren't credible. Small nation states like Israel were simply incapable of fielding armies this large. I find it more credible that some scribe added a few zeroes along the way to make David's army appear more impressive than it was originally.

There's also the fact that Joab would have submitted only one report to David. His number would either be the 1,100,000 figure or the 800,000 figure, not both. So one of these passages is incorrect. If Joab submitted the former, he would not have included the "standing armies" number, because that would be all the men of Israel. If Joab submitted the latter, then he would have either noted that the "standing army" was such-and-such, or simply would have let it remain unsaid. Either way, he did not state the 1,100,000 figure.

This is the real contradiction. One of the sets of figures attributed to Joab was inaccurate.

Quote
What now?
Nothing. You're not going to make me believe that either number of soldiers is actually accurate to the real situation in Israel at that time, if it were ever an semi-accurate account in the first place. 1,600,000 soldiers was an IMMENSE force in ancient times, and a 370,000 strong permanent army is not really credible for a nation that small. Not when you're boasting an army a size that would make Xerxes blush.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2018, 07:35:01 PM by Hakurei Reimu »
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Offline Baruch

Re: Biblical contradictions.
« Reply #19 on: July 21, 2018, 01:51:27 AM »
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Wow Mousetrap.  Getting all literalist on us eh?  Do you have children?  Do you beat them black and blue to cleanse the sin?  Do you make sure your slaves obey your commands?  Lived in a fish for a few days and got burped up?  Talked to any donkeys?

Cripes.  Just stop.

We call slaves ... employees today in the US, except for the 14 year old girls ;-(
שלום

Offline Cavebear

Re: Biblical contradictions.
« Reply #20 on: July 21, 2018, 04:15:20 AM »
Never trust numbers from people who thought pi was "3.0".
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: Biblical contradictions.
« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2018, 04:19:24 AM »
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Never trust numbers from people who thought pi was "3.0".

Without early math, there would be no later math.  Never trust a mathematician who runs a new age cult (Pythagoras).
שלום

Offline Cavebear

Re: Biblical contradictions.
« Reply #22 on: July 21, 2018, 04:35:37 AM »
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Without early math, there would be no later math.  Never trust a mathematician who runs a new age cult (Pythagoras).

Proof that you trust religion over science...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Re: Biblical contradictions.
« Reply #23 on: July 21, 2018, 01:16:25 PM »
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Love Twain.  It has been awhile for me, but have you read Letters From Earth?  It is written by satan to Michael in heaven; satan was banished from heaven for a thousand years or a celestial day.  It is a great read!
I have read that! But it's been maybe a couple of decades. I'd love to come across it again, I'd definitely give it another read.
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"Which do I prefer? Sex or chess? It depends on the position."
Boris Spassky

Offline Cavebear

Re: Biblical contradictions.
« Reply #24 on: July 21, 2018, 01:19:17 PM »
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I have read that! But it's been maybe a couple of decades. I'd love to come across it again, I'd definitely give it another read.

I would, but I would get annoyed feeling sympathetic to a fictional Satan as to a fictional God. 
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: Biblical contradictions.
« Reply #25 on: July 21, 2018, 01:54:31 PM »
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I would, but I would get annoyed feeling sympathetic to a fictional Satan as to a fictional God.

Can't get into any books more interesting than the Yellow Pages?
שלום

Re: Biblical contradictions.
« Reply #26 on: July 21, 2018, 02:00:43 PM »
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I have read that! But it's been maybe a couple of decades. I'd love to come across it again, I'd definitely give it another read.
Yeah, me too.  It was one of the first anti-christian books I'd read.  Loved it.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Re: Biblical contradictions.
« Reply #27 on: July 21, 2018, 02:02:24 PM »
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I would, but I would get annoyed feeling sympathetic to a fictional Satan as to a fictional God.
You would love it, Cavebear.  It is Twain simply using Satan to lay bear many of the idiocies of christianity, but only as Twain can.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Re: Biblical contradictions.
« Reply #28 on: July 21, 2018, 02:06:21 PM »
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Yeah, me too.  It was one of the first anti-christian books I'd read.  Loved it.
I just found it on-line:

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I don't know how much time I'll have to read it, but I can do a bit each day, I hope.
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"Which do I prefer? Sex or chess? It depends on the position."
Boris Spassky

Re: Biblical contradictions.
« Reply #29 on: July 21, 2018, 02:14:39 PM »
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I just found it on-line:

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I don't know how much time I'll have to read it, but I can do a bit each day, I hope.
Great.  Think I still have a copy but it has been so long since I've seen it; may have given it away, tho.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

 

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