Author Topic: My two favorite Marxists ...  (Read 967 times)

Offline Baruch

My two favorite Marxists ...
« on: July 19, 2018, 08:16:45 PM »
These guys are the real thing, not virtue signaling children ...

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You can learn a lot from intelligent mature opponents ...
« Last Edit: July 19, 2018, 08:19:55 PM by Baruch »
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luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Cavebear

Re: My two favorite Marxists ...
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2018, 06:38:22 AM »
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These guys are the real thing, not virtue signaling children ...

You can learn a lot from intelligent mature opponents ...

My 2 favorite Marxists?  Marx and Hengel.  Because they are both dead...  And never imagined the Soviet Russians.  LOL!
« Last Edit: July 21, 2018, 07:08:59 AM by Cavebear »
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline SGOS

Re: My two favorite Marxists ...
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2018, 06:58:17 AM »
At one time, I confused capitalism and democracy as synonyms.  Only through some sit down conscious rational thinking did I realize they were not the same thing.  I forgive myself for this error, and a stupid one at that.  While I haven't determined the reason for the stupidity, I think it was just some subtle and maybe even some unintentional brain washing I had been exposed to during my formative years.  This may have been from sources outside myself, or it may have come from within, as we do a lot of brainwashing to ourselves.  Reason is the only way out that I have found.  Otherwise, we end up making value judgments based on our likes and dislikes of a thing, rather than it's actual benefits or harm.

Offline Cavebear

Re: My two favorite Marxists ...
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2018, 07:11:39 AM »
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At one time, I confused capitalism and democracy as synonyms.  Only through some sit down conscious rational thinking did I realize they were not the same thing.  I forgive myself for this error, and a stupid one at that.  While I haven't determined the reason for the stupidity, I think it was just some subtle and maybe even some unintentional brain washing I had been exposed to during my formative years.  This may have been from sources outside myself, or it may have come from within, as we do a lot of brainwashing to ourselves.  Reason is the only way out that I have found.  Otherwise, we end up making value judgments based on our likes and dislikes of a thing, rather than it's actual benefits or harm.

It is a view that is strongly suggested in US politics and history.  Don't blame yourself.  It can be hard to separate the two sometimes.  But they ARE not the same.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: My two favorite Marxists ...
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2018, 09:41:51 AM »
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My 2 favorite Marxists?  Marx and Hengel.  Because they are both dead...  And never imagined the Soviet Russians.  LOL!

Lenin was only a genius in his own mind.  Stalin killed geniuses (like Trotsky).
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Baruch

Re: My two favorite Marxists ...
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2018, 09:42:47 AM »
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At one time, I confused capitalism and democracy as synonyms.  Only through some sit down conscious rational thinking did I realize they were not the same thing.  I forgive myself for this error, and a stupid one at that.  While I haven't determined the reason for the stupidity, I think it was just some subtle and maybe even some unintentional brain washing I had been exposed to during my formative years.  This may have been from sources outside myself, or it may have come from within, as we do a lot of brainwashing to ourselves.  Reason is the only way out that I have found.  Otherwise, we end up making value judgments based on our likes and dislikes of a thing, rather than it's actual benefits or harm.

That last sentence, is exactly why you aren't an SJW (which is necessarily a young inexperienced person).
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Cavebear

Re: My two favorite Marxists ...
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2018, 09:48:12 AM »
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Lenin was only a genius in his own mind.  Stalin killed geniuses (like Trotsky).

Did I mention Lenin or Stalin?  You sure love to throw apples into the pudding!
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: My two favorite Marxists ...
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2018, 10:09:12 AM »
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Did I mention Lenin or Stalin?  You sure love to throw apples into the pudding!

You mentioned the Soviets.  Though technically, neither Lenin, Stalin or Trotsky were true Russians.
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Cavebear

Re: My two favorite Marxists ...
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2018, 12:54:43 PM »
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You mentioned the Soviets.  Though technically, neither Lenin, Stalin or Trotsky were true Russians.

But they were all "soviets".  And in contradiction to your post (what a surprise), Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov, better known by the alias Lenin, was born to a wealthy middle-class family in Simbirsk, Russia.  Trotsky, of course, was Ukrainian and Stalin was a Georgian.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: My two favorite Marxists ...
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2018, 01:55:51 PM »
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But they were all "soviets".  And in contradiction to your post (what a surprise), Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov, better known by the alias Lenin, was born to a wealthy middle-class family in Simbirsk, Russia.  Trotsky, of course, was Ukrainian and Stalin was a Georgian.

Imitating Cavebear ... I already knew that circa 1972.

Lenin was part Tartar.  Trotsky was Jewish.  Dzerzhyinsky (founded Cheka/KGB) was Polish.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2018, 01:57:40 PM by Baruch »
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Cavebear

Re: My two favorite Marxists ...
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2018, 11:40:08 AM »
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Imitating Cavebear ... I already knew that circa 1972.

Lenin was part Tartar.  Trotsky was Jewish.  Dzerzhyinsky (founded Cheka/KGB) was Polish.

Well, according to recent DNA test, I'm part Tartar, part Vietnamese (still laughing at THAT one), part Swedish, part Irish, part Frankish, and some Middle Eastern.

So?
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: My two favorite Marxists ...
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2018, 01:16:22 PM »
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Well, according to recent DNA test, I'm part Tartar, part Vietnamese (still laughing at THAT one), part Swedish, part Irish, part Frankish, and some Middle Eastern.

So?

The Russians now claim they were never Communist, just victims of non-ethnic Russians, such as Jews, Georgians etc.  They don't want to own up to the collaboration and initial enthusiasm for utopia.

You are too old to be an Amer-asian Vietnamese boat refugee.
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Cavebear

Re: My two favorite Marxists ...
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2018, 01:23:48 PM »
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The Russians now claim they were never Communist, just victims of non-ethnic Russians, such as Jews, Georgians etc.  They don't want to own up to the collaboration and initial enthusiasm for utopia.

You are too old to be an Amer-asian Vietnamese boat refugee.

I can just hear Ensign Chekov saying "we inwented demokracy".  (I tried to get a backwards "r" in there, but couldn't)

But the DNA test went back 2500 years. 
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: My two favorite Marxists ...
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2018, 08:05:55 PM »
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I can just hear Ensign Chekov saying "we inwented demokracy".  (I tried to get a backwards "r" in there, but couldn't)

But the DNA test went back 2500 years.

Yes, Ho Chi Minh had to guerrilla a long long time ...
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Cavebear

Re: My two favorite Marxists ...
« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2018, 03:12:59 AM »
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Yes, Ho Chi Minh had to guerrilla a long long time ...

Keep in mind that Ho Chi Minh first asked the US for help in establishing a democracy to get free of the French Colonial Empire, and only when we refused his pleas, he went to the communists for assistance.  Had the US been rational at the time, all of Vietnam might have been a bulwork of democracy like South Korea...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

 

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