Author Topic: How do we determine the age of Fossils?  (Read 4516 times)

Offline SGOS

Re: How do we determine the age of Fossils?
« Reply #45 on: July 19, 2018, 01:03:32 PM »
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The Ori?  :P
I cannot watch that series without continually seeing the parallels to Christianity as well as religion in general.  SG1 was on a quest to wipe out belief in false gods, but cleverly avoids addressing Christianity's god by not talking about Christianity at all.  I often wonder what the writers were trying to do, because I could never have written an episode without falling off that narrow fence they seemed to walk with such ease.  That's something I've noticed good writers do.  They create scenarios that paint pictures, and avoid explaining everything.  In Of Mice and Men, Steinbeck never refers to Lenny as retarded.  Instead, he paints a picture.  He never says that simple mindedness can lead to drastic consequences.  He paints a picture.  I would be sitting there explaining it all, which would be a lot faster and shorter, but nowhere as interesting.

Re: How do we determine the age of Fossils?
« Reply #46 on: July 19, 2018, 01:20:53 PM »
Didn't there have to be, I dunno, chiefs or such, BEFORE the kings? A long time before the kings most likely.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Offline trdsf

Re: How do we determine the age of Fossils?
« Reply #47 on: July 19, 2018, 03:41:22 PM »
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But to ban or not to ban?  It's pointless to discuss.  The moderators decide.  And with such an inactive membership as we have these days, we need people to talk to.  So we have to lower our standards, although there is also a downside to allowing to much delusional or offensive babble in any discussion group.  Where that line is, I don't know.  That's not a coin toss that I have much investment in.
Oh, no, he hasn't done anything bannable.  He's done a number of things that let me know he's not someone I would want to hang out with in meatspace, but despite straying wildly from the informal rules of debate, he hasn't so far as I've noticed strayed from the formal rules of this forum.
Sir Terry Pratchett, on being told about the theory that the universe is a computer simulation: "If we all get out and in again, would it start to work properly this time?"

Offline aitm

Re: How do we determine the age of Fossils?
« Reply #48 on: July 19, 2018, 05:59:34 PM »
Once he explained what "scientific theory" was, I stopped reading the rest of his prattle. I do enjoy reading the brilliant sound science that leaves him scurrying around for another "copy/pasta" ignorant try of rebuttal, but again get to enjoy the replies that makes this the smartest forum on the net. He will prattle about for awhile until his ignorance tires us all and eventually, ashes to ashes....dust to dust...
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Offline Baruch

Re: How do we determine the age of Fossils?
« Reply #49 on: July 19, 2018, 07:19:23 PM »
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Didn't there have to be, I dunno, chiefs or such, BEFORE the kings? A long time before the kings most likely.

Yes, Kansas City has been dominant in sports for a very long time ;-))
𐎍𐎜𐎜𐎟𐎌𐎀𐎍𐎎𐎀𐎀𐎚𐎀𐎟𐎍𐎜𐎜𐎟𐎁𐎀𐎍𐎉𐎀𐎀𐎚𐎀
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Re: How do we determine the age of Fossils?
« Reply #50 on: July 19, 2018, 07:21:05 PM »
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Once he explained what "scientific theory" was, I stopped reading the rest of his prattle. I do enjoy reading the brilliant sound science that leaves him scurrying around for another "copy/pasta" ignorant try of rebuttal, but again get to enjoy the replies that makes this the smartest forum on the net. He will prattle about for awhile until his ignorance tires us all and eventually, ashes to ashes....dust to dust...
Homer schooled, I think.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Re: How do we determine the age of Fossils?
« Reply #51 on: July 20, 2018, 07:24:24 AM »
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Great is the power of ignore.
On the character of the Atheist...
I rest my case!
Evolution, the religion whereby one believes your children more human, and your parents more ape, than you!

The Human Mind, if it has nothing to do with Evolution...What an incredible entity...
If it does, what a waste!

Atheism, what a wonderful religion, where one believe to believe is erroneous.

Re: How do we determine the age of Fossils?
« Reply #52 on: July 20, 2018, 07:32:58 AM »
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So? We have Sumerian pottery dating back 6500–4100 BCE. Someone made those pots, cupcake. You don't make pots unless you're living in more-or-less permanent settlements. Also, we have graves, with signs of social stratification as this culture developed. We have found no less than sixteen settlements from this period. It's a nascent civilization, not an empire yet, but on its way to getting there.
So? We have rock drawings in Egypt that date back to 10,000 BCE. Someone carved them. We have the bones of a human that dates to 35,100-30,360 years in this region as well. Settlements dating back to 6000 BCE dot Egypt. People lived in Egypt. Again, not an empire yet, with dynasties ruling over Upper and Lower Egypt.

Someone was living in Mesopotamia and organizing itself into a large civilization quite a bit before God supposedly created the world, or as you suppose, just life. Egypt was already getting started itself as well. Not the Egypt of the Bible with Pharaoh and pyramid tombs, etc. or the Sumerian culture we're familiar with, but they were there.
....Shortened for convenience sake....

An ancient earth demands equally ancient life and ancient civilization as well. You'll get no traction here, because even without radioisotope dating, the Earth, life, and civilization is extremely old and obviously so after any scientific scrutiny.
Perhaps you dont understand what I am saying.
Your dating of these potteries and strata is exactly what I am referring to.
Lets go from this axis on your claim that there was life on Earth prior to 6 YK.
How did they date these sites?

Without continuation of these arguments, all I want you to tell me is how do they know this pottery is +35YK old?

Evolution, the religion whereby one believes your children more human, and your parents more ape, than you!

The Human Mind, if it has nothing to do with Evolution...What an incredible entity...
If it does, what a waste!

Atheism, what a wonderful religion, where one believe to believe is erroneous.

Offline SGOS

Re: How do we determine the age of Fossils?
« Reply #53 on: July 20, 2018, 08:08:33 AM »
How would anyone know that man did not exist before 6YK?  What device could measure his absence?

Re: How do we determine the age of Fossils?
« Reply #54 on: July 20, 2018, 08:11:53 AM »
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How would anyone know that man did not exist before 6YK?  What device could measure his absence?
Nice question indeed.
Absence is no evidence for presence.
This is Critique of Pure reason at its best.
Evolution, the religion whereby one believes your children more human, and your parents more ape, than you!

The Human Mind, if it has nothing to do with Evolution...What an incredible entity...
If it does, what a waste!

Atheism, what a wonderful religion, where one believe to believe is erroneous.

Offline SGOS

Re: How do we determine the age of Fossils?
« Reply #55 on: July 20, 2018, 09:01:25 AM »
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Nice question indeed.
Absence is no evidence for presence.
This is Critique of Pure reason at its best.
Or the critique of the lack thereof.

Re: How do we determine the age of Fossils?
« Reply #56 on: July 20, 2018, 09:12:10 AM »
And absence is evidence for absence, until proven otherwise. You know, like a god or gods.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Re: How do we determine the age of Fossils?
« Reply #57 on: July 20, 2018, 09:35:26 AM »
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And absence is evidence for absence, until proven otherwise. You know, like a god or gods.
Yes, and the lack of evidence to Evolution.
I love this critique of pure reason.

As Kant envisioned it compared to a blind person sitting in a field with a deaf person.
One can not see the rainbow, the other dont hear the birds.

Is it true that there is a rainbow, and birds?

What if we are without the necessary senses to determine the metaphysical.
Shall we remain with the empirical?

Skeptical, logical, liberal, intellectual.
Hey Hey Hey Hey.
Then a saxophone.

Evolution, the religion whereby one believes your children more human, and your parents more ape, than you!

The Human Mind, if it has nothing to do with Evolution...What an incredible entity...
If it does, what a waste!

Atheism, what a wonderful religion, where one believe to believe is erroneous.

Offline SGOS

Re: How do we determine the age of Fossils?
« Reply #58 on: July 20, 2018, 10:20:33 AM »
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As Kant envisioned it compared to a blind person sitting in a field with a deaf person.
One can not see the rainbow, the other dont hear the birds.

Is it true that there is a rainbow, and birds?
A stretch of analogy.  As if a documented handicap overrides a documented sensory perception.  Imagination is a perception, but doesn't warrant the status of sight, hearing, smell, taste, touch.  A sixth sense of extrasensory perception is sometimes included with the 5 recognized senses, but it's existence remains in question.  Theists hold it high regard and fundamentalists all seem to think they all have a variation of it, which throws further doubt on its authenticity.

Sometimes other senses are added to the 5, but they appear to be derivatives of the basic 5 or derivatives of the derivatives.  Imagination is not included.

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Quote
•Pressure
•Itch
•Temperature
•Pain
•Thirst
•Hunger
•Direction
•Time
•Muscle tension
•Proprioception (the ability to tell where your body parts are, relative to other body parts)
•Equilibrioception (the ability to keep your balance and sense body movement in terms of acceleration and directional changes)
•Stretch Receptors (These are found in such places as the lungs, bladder, stomach, blood vessels, and the gastrointestinal tract.)
•Chemoreceptors (These trigger an area of the medulla in the brain that is involved in detecting blood born hormones and drugs. It also is involved in the vomiting reflex.)


« Last Edit: July 20, 2018, 10:22:17 AM by SGOS »

Offline trdsf

Re: How do we determine the age of Fossils?
« Reply #59 on: July 20, 2018, 12:13:40 PM »
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What if we are without the necessary senses to determine the metaphysical.
Shall we remain with the empirical?
Yes, because that's all that can be demonstrated.

Fortunately, what can be known is not limited to our immediate senses, because we can extend them by means of tools and machines.  Just because I can't see gamma rays doesn't mean they don't exist, but I know they do exist because their presence can be demonstrated reliably and repeatably.  They can be recorded and examined.

I can't see infrared light, but I can experience it as heat, and I can photograph it with the right filters, and I can demonstrate it with only a thermometer, a prism, and a sunny day.

Back in the day, there was a group of deaf Deadheads who would still go to concerts, and not just for the camaraderie of the Deadhead world -- they would gather near the stage with balloons, because the balloons acted like audio lenses.  They couldn't hear the concert, but they could feel it.  Could they hear the music?  No.  Were they experiencing it anyway?  Absolutely.

My doctor can't see inside me, but he can track my symptoms and family medical history, then order an ultrasound and identify the gallstone he expected to be there.  Oddly enough, when I finally had my cholecystectomy (they run in my family, it was all but inevitable), they checked on my appendix to see if it needed to be removed.  My doctor later told me that it was perfectly healthy, so they didn't compound the surgery by doing something unnecessary.

Four years later, I had an emergency appendectomy.

Was I misdiagnosed when my gall bladder was taken out?  No.  I was correctly diagnosed.  Surgeons work with data, not prophecy.  He couldn't possibly have known that it was going to go rogue in four years -- and I want my medical care based on reality, not magic.

The reason for the scientific method is because it works.  And it works because it takes into account the fact that we are limited humans, and that our observations of the world around us change, so our understanding of the world around us must also change.

And no extension of our senses, even in to the most non-human realms like neutrino telescopy and gravitational waves, has ever revealed anything metaphysical.

The direction you look like you're going is "Well, just because you can't see it doesn't mean it isn't there" and that's a logical fallacy, that's shifting the burden of proof.  If you assert something is there, you have to propose a way to detect and measure it.  If you can't do that, your claim can be dismissed without further consideration.  It's not our job to disprove your assertion, it's your job to provide evidence for it first so that it can be reviewed, analyzed, examined, and most importantly repeated to ensure the same results are available to anyone.

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Skeptical, logical, liberal, intellectual.
Hey Hey Hey Hey.
Then a saxophone.
Proud to be all four, and really wish I could play the sax.

You're down to just Non Sequitur Theater now, I see.
Sir Terry Pratchett, on being told about the theory that the universe is a computer simulation: "If we all get out and in again, would it start to work properly this time?"

 

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