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Early Christian Schisms

Started by Shiranu, July 17, 2018, 03:29:55 AM

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Shiranu

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1ZZeCDGHJE


This made me understand my childhood so much more, and it's crazy to think that things from 1900 years ago (like getting your foreskin removed before modern medicine) effected my life today, but also what culture the Western world would be today (Roman pagan vs Christian trinity).
"A little science distances you from God, but a lot of science brings you nearer to Him." - Louis Pasteur

Cavebear

I know all about that stuff, but I appreciated the video being posted.  Some people could use it...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Baruch

Shiranu - this might help
Cavebear - I already know everything

Often that series of animations on history are both to the point, and fairly accurate (but the Mongols are always the exception).

There was no unified Christianity before Constantine, and even for him, there was violent schism between Christians in Alexandria, 100 years before Hypatia.  The Arian controversy went on for 100 years.  But really it was about ... which bishop has the biggest prick.  St Cyril of Alexandria ultimately showed he was the biggest prick.  Pope Damasus was a pretty big prick too, a contested Papal election led to his followers murdering over a hundred supporters of another candidate in a neighboring church. Pope Damasus represented the upper class, the other guy represented the people and lower clergy. A council in Rome, in his anti-pontificate (which has invalidated all subsequent Popes IMHO), the RC determined for itself, the official Bible canon.  And in his Pontificate, the Emperor in Constantinople, supported anti-Semitism and made his own Christianity the only legal religion.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Cavebear

Quote from: Baruch on July 17, 2018, 06:29:52 AM
Shiranu - this might help
Cavebear - I already know everything

Often that series of animations on history are both to the point, and fairly accurate (but the Mongols are always the exception).

There was no unified Christianity before Constantine, and even for him, there was violent schism between Christians in Alexandria, 100 years before Hypatia.  The Arian controversy went on for 100 years.  But really it was about ... which bishop has the biggest prick.  St Cyril of Alexandria ultimately showed he was the biggest prick.  Pope Damasus was a pretty big prick too, a contested Papal election led to his followers murdering over a hundred supporters of another candidate in a neighboring church. Pope Damasus represented the upper class, the other guy represented the people and lower clergy. A council in Rome, in his anti-pontificate (which has invalidated all subsequent Popes IMHO), the RC determined for itself, the official Bible canon.  And in his Pontificate, the Emperor in Constantinople, supported anti-Semitism and made his own Christianity the only legal religion.

Hey, just because I'm an atheist doesn't mean I don't know history. 

But Hypatia, there's a rub of anger.  Cyril mounted a mob against her and they flayed the flesh off her bones, before burning the Library of Alexandria.  She, a scholar was skinned to death, and he was made a saint. 

One of the many reasons to not quite love the Christian church in its actuality.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Baruch

Quote from: Cavebear on July 25, 2018, 12:36:34 PM
Hey, just because I'm an atheist doesn't mean I don't know history. 

But Hypatia, there's a rub of anger.  Cyril mounted a mob against her and they flayed the flesh off her bones, before burning the Library of Alexandria.  She, a scholar was skinned to death, and he was made a saint. 

One of the many reasons to not quite love the Christian church in its actuality.

Alexandrian politics was dirty and for keeps.  Think of the Jews, Pagans and Christians in the city then as competing mafias.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Cavebear

Quote from: Baruch on July 25, 2018, 12:57:38 PM
Alexandrian politics was dirty and for keeps.  Think of the Jews, Pagans and Christians in the city then as competing mafias.

Yeah, but a LIBRARIAN?  AND ABALONE SHELLS?

Abominably twisted from The Music Man':

"Hypatia...Hypatia Librarian
What can I say, my dear, to catch your ear I love you madly, madly
Madam Librarian...
Hypatia Heaven help us if the library caught on fire
And the Volunteer Hose Brigademen
Had to whisper the news to Hypatia...
Madam Librarian
What can I say, my dear, to make it clear I need you badly, badly,
Madam Librarian...
Hypatia If I stumbled and I busted my what-you-may-call-it
I could lie on your floor unnoticed
'Till my body had turned to carrion...Madam Librarian..."


Forgive me...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Baruch

Sex starved celibates behave bizarrely.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Cavebear

Quote from: Baruch on July 25, 2018, 07:40:36 PM
Sex starved celibates behave bizarrely.

I suppose.  But it is always good to get word from those who know...  Thank you.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Baruch

Quote from: Cavebear on August 01, 2018, 08:06:52 AM
I suppose.  But it is always good to get word from those who know...  Thank you.

So, still butt hurt about things that happened over 1000 years ago?  Well, that makes you fit to be ... religious ;-)
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Cavebear

Quote from: Baruch on August 01, 2018, 12:40:37 PM
So, still butt hurt about things that happened over 1000 years ago?  Well, that makes you fit to be ... religious ;-)

The importance of what happened 1,000 years ago depends on the location...

World History 1000-1100 AD

Basil II Defeats Bulgarians, Canute II Rules England, Boleslav-King Of Poland, Ommiad Caliphate Of Spain Dissolved, Byzantine Empress Poison Husband, Sejuk Turks Take Bagdhad, Battle Of Hasting, Anwratha - Burma United, Tower Of London, Kingdom Of Ghana, Alfonso VI Conquers Toledo, El Cid Takes Valencia, First Crusades
1014 AD Basil II Defeats Bulgarians-The Byzantine Emperor Basil II routed the Bulgarians at the Battle of Cimbalugu. Basil killed most of the Bulgarian army, and then blinded 24,000 Bulgarian captives. The Bulgarians were forced to submit to Byzantine rule.
1016 AD Canute II Rules All Of England- On the death of Ethelred II the King of England, Edmund II succeeded to the throne. Canute II, a Dane, was chosen by the Witan- the advisory council to the King. Canute II battled Edmund at Ashington and defeated him. This led to Caunute II being crowned King of all England.
1025 AD Boleslav- First King Of Poland- Poland gained independence from the Holy Roman Empire when Boleslav I was crowned the first Polish King at Gniezno in 825. Poland quickly emerged as one of Europe's most powerful nations, extending from the Bugthe to the Elbe and from the Danube River to the Baltic Sea.
1031 AD The Ommiad Caliphate Of Spain Dissolved - After 30 years of anarchy, the Omayyad Caliphate of Spain dissolved on the death of Hisham III. Spain was divided into a number of small Muslim states.
1034 AD Byzantine Empress Poison Husband The Byzantine Empress Zoe poisoned her husband, Romanus III. She went on to marry Michael IV of Paphiagonia and then reigned together with him until 1041.
1055 AD Sejuk Turks Take Bagdhad- Seljuk Turks, under the command of Togrul, captured Baghdad. They ousted the Persian Buwayhid Dynasty. The Abbasides looked upon the Seljuks as liberators and supported them. The Seljuk Empire would reach it's zenith under Malik Shah who expanded the Empire to the point that it seriously threatened the Byzantine Empire's continued existence.
1057 AD Anwratha - Burma United - Anawratha, the Burmese king of Paga, conquered the Mon Kingdom of Thaton. For the first time, all of Burma was under unified rule.
Battle Of Hasting- At the Battle of Hastings, the Norman, William the Conqueror defeated Harold II, King of England. The victory led to the complete domination of England by the Normans. On December 25th, William was crowned King of England at Westminster Abbey.
1066 AD Tower Of London Constructed- William the Conquerer began building the Tower of London in 1066. It stands to this day.
1076 AD Kingdom Of Ghana Defeated- The Berber Almoravids conquered the Kingdom of Ghana. The capital Kumbi Saleh was sacked. The Ghanaian empire fell apart.
1085 AD Alfonso VI Conquers Toledo- Alfonso VI, the Christian King of Leon and Castile, captured Toledo from the Almoravids and made it his capital.
1094 AD El Cid Takes Valencia- Rodrigo Diaz de Vivar known as El Cid, captured the Moorish Kingdom of Valencia after a nine-month siege. Violating the terms of the surrender, El Cid had the Cadi ibn Djahaff burned alive.
1096 - 1099 First Crusades- The First Crusade began with a call By Alexius I in 1095 for assistance from other Christian states to counter repeated attacks made by Seljuk Turks. He also decried Muslim control of the Holy Land.

His call was echoed by the Pope. As many as 30,000 people responded and joined the Crusade. The Seljuk Muslims are easily defeated in Syria. In 1099, the Crusaders arrive in Jerusalem. They lay siege to the city, capture it and thoroughly sack it killing thousands of Muslims and Jews indiscriminately.
-------
Amazing...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Baruch

Yeah, they used to have fun in the "good old days".  It is always a good time to kill Jews.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Cavebear

Quote from: Baruch on August 04, 2018, 08:11:32 AM
Yeah, they used to have fun in the "good old days".  It is always a good time to kill Jews.

And mostly everyone else, too.  "Let God sort them out", as if being killed was a minor matter.  What inane butchery...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Baruch

Quote from: Cavebear on August 04, 2018, 08:16:53 AM
And mostly everyone else, too.  "Let God sort them out", as if being killed was a minor matter.  What inane butchery...

Read the specifics of where that quote comes from.  Papal legate, at the sacking of Beziers France about 1209.  That is also where "dogs of war" come from.  They were ferrel teenage boys, not dogs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_at_Béziers

The Catholic Church doesn't tolerate opposition (anti-Cathar Crusade).  Some of the Crusades were against fellow Europeans.  And the King of France (Paris and surrounds) was looking to extend his measly territory.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Jason Harvestdancer

The heresies of the early days were more interesting.

Jesus was only divine
Jesus was only man
John was the messiah, not Jesus
The various Gnostic heresies

Today all we get is Creationism.
White privilege is being a lifelong racist, then being sent to the White House twice because your running mate is a minority.<br /><br />No Biden, no KKK, no Fascist USA!

Baruch

Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on August 15, 2018, 11:46:23 PM
The heresies of the early days were more interesting.

Jesus was only divine
Jesus was only man
John was the messiah, not Jesus
The various Gnostic heresies

Today all we get is Creationism.

Don't forget ..
Jesus is Jewish
Jesus is universal
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.