News:

Welcome to our site!

Main Menu

Early Christian Schisms

Started by Shiranu, July 17, 2018, 03:29:55 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

aitm

Politics? No so much. Regimes...Kingdoms...Caliphate? Plenty of history there.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Baruch

Quote from: aitm on March 21, 2020, 06:12:24 PM
Politics? No so much. Regimes...Kingdoms...Caliphate? Plenty of history there.

Difference without distinction.  The man with the gold rules the economy.  The man with the gun rules the man with the gold.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Newtonian

Quote from: Baruch on March 21, 2020, 06:03:30 PM
Correct, by the 3rd century CE ... the Western church, in its parochialism and anti-semitism moved away from the Jewish calendar.  The Eastern church kept the Jewish calendar, though their reset of the calendar (as required by the rabbinic system) was under episcopal authority, not rabbinic.  And even the rabbinic calendar was fully systematizes in the mid 4th century CE ... so that it no longer depended on Kohens in Palestine or Babylonia.

The Arab Muslims avoided all this, by sticking to a pure Lunar calendar, while the Romans kept to a pure Solar calendar (until the Gregorian reform) borrowed from Egypt, as Julius Caesar was influenced by Cleopatra ;-)

The Jewish/Muslim system of time also counts midnight as the start of the next day.  So Jewish Sabbath starts at sundown Friday, and goes until sundown Saturday.  Nobody used midnight as the start of the day, until modern times.

True, but this schism started in the 2nd century  and is the first schism that I know of.

From:

https://www.thefreedictionary.com/Polycarp

"Pol·y·carp  (pŏl′Ä"-kärp′), Saint ad 69?-155?
Christian martyr. A student of the Apostle John, he was burned at the stake during a period of persecution of Christians in Smyrna."

Note that Polycarp was a student of the apostle John- the claim that there is a gap in history is not factual.  Victor was the apostate, not Polycarp who stuck with apostolic beliefs.

Yes, this schism lasted a long time.  It actually still exists!

aitm

Quote from: Baruch on March 21, 2020, 06:14:05 PM
Difference without distinction.  The man with the gold rules the economy.  The man with the gun rules the man with the gold.
Exactly.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Baruch

The first schism (per Eusebius) was Peter vs James.  Later Paul vs Peter.  This was all 1st century.  Polycarp was 2nd century.  There were many heresiarchs by that time.

A case can be made that the Gospel of John is closest to Paul.  The Synoptics are closest to Peter (and Mark).  Later Christian theology was divided between Rome, Antioch and Alexandria (proto-patriarchs).  The Jewish Church (and Jewish messianism) was discredited by the 3rd Jewish-Roman war (Bar Kochba).    The three Jewish-Roman wars led to huge anti-semitism in the Pauline churches (which were pro-Roman).  From 135 CE, the churches were mostly Pauline but distrustful of pentecostalism and millennialism (anti-Montanus).  The Roman church used the Greek Bible until the mid 3rd century, by which time the majority of congregants were Latin speaking.  Latin wasn't common in the Western Church until after that, and got solidified in the mid-4th century by the Jerome Vulgate (which took centuries to become standard).
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Newtonian

Quote from: Baruch on March 21, 2020, 09:04:26 PM
The first schism (per Eusebius) was Peter vs James.  Later Paul vs Peter.  This was all 1st century.  Polycarp was 2nd century.  There were many heresiarchs by that time.

A case can be made that the Gospel of John is closest to Paul.  The Synoptics are closest to Peter (and Mark).  Later Christian theology was divided between Rome, Antioch and Alexandria (proto-patriarchs).  The Jewish Church (and Jewish messianism) was discredited by the 3rd Jewish-Roman war (Bar Kochba).    The three Jewish-Roman wars led to huge anti-semitism in the Pauline churches (which were pro-Roman).  From 135 CE, the churches were mostly Pauline but distrustful of pentecostalism and millennialism (anti-Montanus).  The Roman church used the Greek Bible until the mid 3rd century, by which time the majority of congregants were Latin speaking.  Latin wasn't common in the Western Church until after that, and got solidified in the mid-4th century by the Jerome Vulgate (which took centuries to become standard).

There is no difference in the teachings of any of the apostles.   Polycarp was a student of the apostle John and was loyal to apostolic teachings.   Also, Polycarp lived between 70 and 155 CE - hence BOTH 1st and 2nd centuries.

Remember, Jesus did not start a new religion and Jesus was Jewish, as were all of the apostles.   However, Jesus claimed to be the Messiah as per many messianic prophecies in the Hebrew Scriptures.   For example, being born in Bethlehem - Micah 5:2.

All of the apostles and Christian Greek Scripture (aka NT) writers taught the same as Jesus taught.

Btw - Jehovah's Witnesses believe Jesus was/is the Messiah.

Did you have some specific teaching in mind?

Baruch

Quote from: Newtonian on March 23, 2020, 09:07:47 AM
There is no difference in the teachings of any of the apostles.   Polycarp was a student of the apostle John and was loyal to apostolic teachings.   Also, Polycarp lived between 70 and 155 CE - hence BOTH 1st and 2nd centuries.

Remember, Jesus did not start a new religion and Jesus was Jewish, as were all of the apostles.   However, Jesus claimed to be the Messiah as per many messianic prophecies in the Hebrew Scriptures.   For example, being born in Bethlehem - Micah 5:2.

All of the apostles and Christian Greek Scripture (aka NT) writers taught the same as Jesus taught.

Btw - Jehovah's Witnesses believe Jesus was/is the Messiah.

Did you have some specific teaching in mind?

That is apologetics.  Not history.  Not that it is wrong to be semi-orthodox.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.