When did 'LIFE" begin? (Science in relation with the Biblical description)

Started by Mousetrap, July 13, 2018, 05:55:30 AM

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Mousetrap

Quote from: Munch on July 13, 2018, 12:44:01 PM
creationist scientists?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPyKaH09lpc
The most amazing thing about Atheists are that they have this immense capability to sooth their minds when they listen to each other.
Allow me to elaborate.
Just listen to the first 4 minutes of this video.
The narrator claims:
1. Creationist scientists are a minority.
===so? Does this mean that the scientists of the world are having elections to decide if a certain scientific discovery should hold water? Did you guys forget how J Harlan Bretz was almost thrown out of the American Geological society in 1924 when he came with evidence of a "flood of Biblical proportions" after concluding his work on the Scablands in Washington? The Atheists hated such a claim, and told him to go back and find another answer. If it was not for J Pardee who furthered his fieldwork, and discovered Lake Musoula, your Atheists would have lost this explanation forever.Well, the majority was WRONG and one man was correct, and in 1979 he receive the Penrose medal with the words: "All my enemies are dead, so I have no one to gloat over.".

All those foolish Atheist scientists was DEAD!
Long live the minority that are correct!
2. There are Creationist Scientists, and Rational scientists.
This is very bias to say the least.
To think that an Atheist thinks there are 2 types of Physicists is a sorrowful thought to even consider as an intelligent remark.
A Creationist and a Rational Physicist.
Since when did the Universities of the world start to issue these certificates to BSc's?
Can I please know what difference in the studies, and where are the examinations done?
If I came up with such rubbish, everyone will laugh at me! Atheists are really confused about reality!
3. Now, lets look at Laurence Krauss.
I read his book, A Universe from Nothing.

Well, guess what, he did his best to call "Something", "Nothing".
His theory is simply put, stupid and misleading.
To even use Krauss as an explanation that there are Realistic physicist, is the best form of Atheists wishful thinking I ever saw!
When John Lennox debated Krauss, Krauss just knew he was taking a fat chance in his proposal that the Universe came from nothing, by him calling something nothing..
Poor old Krauss thought he could get away with the straw man attack where he tried to tell Lennox about fairies and the Easter bunny.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKt2NPbTHM0

Quote from: http://www.abc.net.au/religion/articles/2013/08/13/3824063.htm
Krauss's latest book claims that advances in science have shown that we can answer the question "why is there something rather than nothing?" without invoking God. His argument can be summarised as follows:

The basic stuff of the universe, as we now understand it, consists of matter and energy, space and time, governed by laws of nature.
Particles of matter correspond to certain configurations of quantum fields. There is a configuration that corresponds to no particles (the "vacuum"). A state with no particles can evolve into a state with particles. Thus, matter can appear from no-matter.
The universe as a whole may have zero net energy.
There are theories that suggest that that space and time themselves are not fundamental, but emerge from a state without space and time.
The laws of nature may be stochastic and random, in which case there may be no ultimate laws of nature.
Since we can imagine the universe coming from a state with no matter, no particles, no space, no time and no laws, something can come from nothing.
But let me conclude.
Guys, if you play the man, and not the game, you are loosing the match.
Go and look at the scientific discoveries, to say this man does this, and is this and that, will never remove your problem about creation.

Evolution, the religion whereby one believes your children more human, and your parents more ape, than you!

The Human Mind, if it has nothing to do with Evolution...What an incredible entity...
If it does, what a waste!

Atheism, what a wonderful religion, where one believe to believe is erroneous.

Mousetrap

To put Krauss in perspective for a simplistic model.

He actually say.
Nothing can come out of nothing.
But wait,
Nothing is actually a mathematical ===="0" (Zero)

Now we can deduct that due to Quantim fields and say
=====+1 -1 = 0====
Therefore, if we take everything in the Universe, then there was a nothing with a lot of something splitting from a lot of negative something.

Guys, do you really believe this BS?

Oh, and all the Atheists quote and review his Papers, therefore Krauss must be correct!
He must be a realistic Physicist!

This is Hilarious!
Evolution, the religion whereby one believes your children more human, and your parents more ape, than you!

The Human Mind, if it has nothing to do with Evolution...What an incredible entity...
If it does, what a waste!

Atheism, what a wonderful religion, where one believe to believe is erroneous.

Mousetrap

Quote from: Cavebear on July 13, 2018, 01:06:29 PM
But what if I remember Monday.  Did you plant that image in my brain?  Or did Monday really happen for me. 

I read a creationist claim once that said (in response to light years of light travel) that God was so clever he CREATED the universe with light travelling all over at exactly the right times. to fool us simple humans that the universe indeed WAS 13 billion years old.

And Mousetrap is SO SIMPLE-MINDED he couldn't even come up with THAT nonsense?  And didn't even KNOW about that line of argument.  LOL!
Yes, the simple mindedness about the light from distant stars is that it is 100% in correlation with what the Bible says.
Before the first day, in Zero time, God created the Universe.
Therefore the stars started to shine, and Zero time was before time existed, it could be well beyond 12.5 billion years, but the Bible's description is correct.
Science also know that the Earth was in existence much later than 8 billion years, but they are determined to count the 8 Billion years and forgetting there was no Earth and Solar system to use as a clockwork.

Therefore, do not use a Strawman argument to destroy thinking you made a point.
The Bible is correct in that Starlight is much older than the Solar System.
Evolution, the religion whereby one believes your children more human, and your parents more ape, than you!

The Human Mind, if it has nothing to do with Evolution...What an incredible entity...
If it does, what a waste!

Atheism, what a wonderful religion, where one believe to believe is erroneous.

Mousetrap

Quote from: Unbeliever on July 13, 2018, 07:18:33 PM
He seems to think that's the only dating method available. He might want to try OkCupid...
But this is not true at all!
Why do you say that?
I said the only dating method to test Organic materials are C14/c12.
Other dating methods, such as Uranium / Lead, are done to test inorganic matter, such as rock, fossils, etc.

C14/C12 was what Atheists always used, to show the Bible is incorrect in claiming an age of life of 6YK.

Please do not change my words, or tell others what I think.
You can never even fathom my thoughts.
Evolution, the religion whereby one believes your children more human, and your parents more ape, than you!

The Human Mind, if it has nothing to do with Evolution...What an incredible entity...
If it does, what a waste!

Atheism, what a wonderful religion, where one believe to believe is erroneous.

Mousetrap

Quote from: sdelsolray on July 13, 2018, 10:52:40 PM
Or ice cores, some of which go back over two million years.

Mousedroppings Mousetrap is demonstrating the standard creationist tactic of ignoring evidence that contradicts or refutes his preconceived conclusions. 

Of course, his disingenuous pretense of being all "sciency" along with his 'Just wait, I'll get to that' stall game (in his 'Origin of the Universe' thread) are mere ploys to inject personal need to control the conversation and seek attention.

Oh, But we will get to Ice core and dendrology soon.
We are now busy with C14/C12
Evolution, the religion whereby one believes your children more human, and your parents more ape, than you!

The Human Mind, if it has nothing to do with Evolution...What an incredible entity...
If it does, what a waste!

Atheism, what a wonderful religion, where one believe to believe is erroneous.

Mousetrap

Quote from: sdelsolray on July 13, 2018, 10:52:40 PM
Or ice cores, some of which go back over two million years.

Mousedroppings Mousetrap is demonstrating the standard creationist tactic of ignoring evidence that contradicts or refutes his preconceived conclusions. 

Of course, his disingenuous pretense of being all "sciency" along with his 'Just wait, I'll get to that' stall game (in his 'Origin of the Universe' thread) are mere ploys to inject personal need to control the conversation and seek attention.
So what is your suggestion?
I have to sit here on the post and type for days on end giving you all the Info so you can read is all at once?
Where is this rule?
Is this your argument against my observation of C14 dating?
Do you see that your claim actually imply a failure to answer me on my claim that the Bible explains C14/C12 dates?

Oh, but you might be under the impression that I will never get to all the other dating techniques?
Dont worry, I like to get you guys warm under the collar.

Actually, I love it!
Evolution, the religion whereby one believes your children more human, and your parents more ape, than you!

The Human Mind, if it has nothing to do with Evolution...What an incredible entity...
If it does, what a waste!

Atheism, what a wonderful religion, where one believe to believe is erroneous.

Mousetrap

Quote from: sdelsolray on July 14, 2018, 09:41:13 PM
...
I realize this will likely make you do some hard work, quite possibly work you have never done before, and for which you have no creationist whore website from which to cut and paste your answer.  Nevertheless, a definition of the term "life" is needed before proceeding further.
Creationist Whore website?
What the hell is that?
I hope it is a spelling mistake.
So far I can only find Atheist whore websites.

Life.
Any Living organism.
Dont you know when something is alive.
I learned the terminology in primary school.
Fron a one celled organism, to a multi celled organism.
Take your pick.
What about this definition.
If it has functioning DNA, Reproduces, eat, drink, grow, age, it is Life.
If it dies, it is dead, does not reproduce, eat, drink, age.
This is organic matter.



Evolution, the religion whereby one believes your children more human, and your parents more ape, than you!

The Human Mind, if it has nothing to do with Evolution...What an incredible entity...
If it does, what a waste!

Atheism, what a wonderful religion, where one believe to believe is erroneous.

Mousetrap

Quote from: Hakurei Reimu on July 14, 2018, 10:45:13 PM
By dating the rocks. The rocks may be dated by a number of methods, including radiological dating of other isotopes. After all, a fossil can be no younger than the rock it's found in.
I agree
Quote from: ReimuNumbers, please? How much water "shielding" would it take to reduce C14 production by any significant amount, and how would this affect the atmosphere and life in it. See, water is actually a rather potent solvent, especially at high temperatures and pressures. It's one of the reasons that life does so well in it: the solubility molecules in water is second to none.
Nothing More, than say, a mist. (Gen 2:6)
I like to have a misty day and do not drown, or die because of it.
Quote from: ReimuCould humans breathe your supersaturated atmosphere and survive? After all, if you evaporate a lot of water into the atmosphere, it has to come at the expense of something else. Like, oxygen.
You forget that all this water did not change into something else but water.
They filled the ocean.
Quote from: ReimuAnd where did it all go, once the event that happened 4000 years ago was over?

No answer? Typical.
You obviously did not even take time to look at my explanation on the origins of the Universe,typical
Quote from: ReimuGood grief, your water vapor shield isn't even a new idea. It was proposed by Kent Hovind to explain how the ancients could be old, and explain where the water of the Flood came from. He can't provide any numbers either, even though he supposedly taught science. I shudder to think the kind of "science" he was teaching his students. He also couldn't tell you shit about where all that water went when it was done. (Obviously, not into the atmosphere.)
Typical. Swearing, creating a straw man, and thinking my position is in error.
Pal, I dont even like Ken Hovind.
All I did was to show you that C14 tests are correct when one take into an account that the Atmosphere did not reach equilibrium 3500 years ago.
I also then took a small description from Genesis that said that Life would have lasted much longer in such an atmosphere than today.
I showed you that Radiation, especially C14, is the reason for ageing in the Human body, or any living body for that matter.
I even showed you that there are a market to produce C14 free food, with a scientific claim that one will age slower if free from c14.
Now, whats your problem with the facts that I showed to you.
Perhaps total denial?
Show me I am wrong about humans ageing due to Radiation, and C14 equilibrium atmosphere, and then come back to me.
Now you are simply reaching out for straws left right and center, in an attempt that you might build a strawman to destroy.
No, it does not work this way.

The only option for you is to prove the following scientific facts wrong.
1. Does people age because of radiation.
2. do you have evidence that the Atmosphere was in equilibrium earlier than minus 4YK.

Simple.
Do that and I am wrong!
If you cant, accept your defeat against the Biblical descriptions about creation.

Evolution, the religion whereby one believes your children more human, and your parents more ape, than you!

The Human Mind, if it has nothing to do with Evolution...What an incredible entity...
If it does, what a waste!

Atheism, what a wonderful religion, where one believe to believe is erroneous.

sdelsolray

Quote from: Mousetrap on July 16, 2018, 09:47:53 AM
Creationist Whore website?
What the hell is that?
I hope it is a spelling mistake.
So far I can only find Atheist whore websites.

Life.
Any Living organism.
Dont you know when something is alive.
I learned the terminology in primary school.
Fron a one celled organism, to a multi celled organism.
Take your pick.
What about this definition.
If it has functioning DNA, Reproduces, eat, drink, grow, age, it is Life.
If it dies, it is dead, does not reproduce, eat, drink, age.
This is organic matter.





With your definition of "life", you will not reach any consensus with any real scientist studying and researching the various abiogenesis hypotheses.  Similarly, you will not reach consensus with any evolutionary biologist working in the area of pre-DNA and pre-cell evolution.


These folks, who do the hard scientific research, basically see the emergence of life as processes from pure chemical reactions to the eventual introduction of biological evolutionary processes.  Somewhat simplified, they view life as the origin of a self-replicating molecule(s) capable of mutation and becoming subject to natural selection.  Only much later did evolutionary processes form cell walls, RNA and DNA and other aspects of life.  If you consider the science from this perspective, you will have an easier time learning about the relevant science.  If you ignore it you will brand yourself as a creationist chump.

Jason78

Quote from: Mousetrap on July 16, 2018, 09:30:32 AM
But this is not true at all!
Why do you say that?
I said the only dating method to test Organic materials are C14/c12.
Other dating methods, such as Uranium / Lead, are done to test inorganic matter, such as rock, fossils, etc.

C14/C12 was what Atheists always used, to show the Bible is incorrect in claiming an age of life of 6YK.

Please do not change my words, or tell others what I think.
You can never even fathom my thoughts.

You don't need Carbon 14 to discredit the Genesis account.    The bible does that itself in the second book.
Winner of WitchSabrinas Best Advice Award 2012


We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real
tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. -Plato

Gawdzilla Sama

We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Mike Cl

Defining life is not as easy as most think.  A brief snippet from wiki:
The definition of life is controversial. The current definition is that organisms are open systems that maintain homeostasis, are composed of cells, have a life cycle, undergo metabolism, can grow, adapt to their environment, respond to stimuli, reproduce and evolve. However, several other biological definitions have been proposed, and there are some borderline cases of life, such as viruses or viroids. In the past, there have been many attempts to define what is meant by "life" through obsolete concepts such as odic force, hylomorphism, spontaneous generation and vitalism, that have now been disproved by biological discoveries. Abiogenesis describes the natural process of life arising from non-living matter, such as simple organic compounds. Properties common to all organisms include the need for certain core chemical elements to sustain biochemical functions.


Is a fire alive?  It meets many of the elements of what makes up life.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

Baruch

Plato defined human as ... two legged and without feathers.  Diogenes then plucked a chicken and presented it to the Academy ... saying "here is your human".  Categorization doesn't occur outside of humans ... we do the naming, the categorizing.  That is in Genesis.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Unbeliever

If it weren't for Emperor Constantine we'd never have heard of Genesis, or David or Jesus or Paul. Judaism and Christianity would both be just more myths like those of the Greeks and Roman, but only scholars would know about them.
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

Baruch

Quote from: Unbeliever on July 16, 2018, 06:17:11 PM
If it weren't for Emperor Constantine we'd never have heard of Genesis, or David or Jesus or Paul. Judaism and Christianity would both be just more myths like those of the Greeks and Roman, but only scholars would know about them.

No, without Christianity, all the Gentiles would have turned on each other and annihilated themselves ... Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

Yes, the sophists, the eggheads, would have had all the girls, been the only males to pass on their genes ... until everyone was a pissant like Socrates.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.