Author Topic: The sounds of Saturn  (Read 851 times)

Offline Cavebear

Re: The sounds of Saturn
« Reply #15 on: July 21, 2018, 07:49:45 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I don't get the "but". I wasn't preaching water exclusivity.

We are all water oriented.  The "but" was just about thinking of other possibilities that feel odd "but" are possible in ways we have not thought enough about yet.

I am equally torn between water-based that I understand an know is possible and possible biochemistry we have not understood yet.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: The sounds of Saturn
« Reply #16 on: July 21, 2018, 10:28:48 AM »
Both of you are "all wet" ;-)
שלום

Offline Cavebear

Re: The sounds of Saturn
« Reply #17 on: July 21, 2018, 12:21:59 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Both of you are "all wet" ;-)

Ah, grasshopper, not all that is liquid is "wet" in the way you think...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: The sounds of Saturn
« Reply #18 on: July 21, 2018, 02:42:11 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Ah, grasshopper, not all that is liquid is "wet" in the way you think...

Polywater?  Only when your parrot takes a piss.
שלום

Offline trdsf

Re: The sounds of Saturn
« Reply #19 on: July 21, 2018, 10:03:27 PM »
Carl Sagan declared himself a carbon and water chauvinist in Cosmos, and his reasoning is... well, reasonable.  There aren't any known plausible molecules that chain like carbon compounds, or that exist in water analogues like liquid methane, and there aren't any comparable liquids to water that are liquid over a similar temperature range.  Colder liquids will slow the process of evolution and even once that gets started implies slow metabolisms.  Hotter liquids will retard the rise of life because it will tend to break up the long molecules that life appears to need in order to pass along genetic information.

Of course, he didn't go so far as to declare it impossible, but I tend to agree that carbon based life is more likely than other forms and water-based is more likely than other solvents, and that when we get to the point of sampling other worlds, I think we'll find that to be the case.
Sir Terry Pratchett, on being told about the theory that the universe is a computer simulation: "If we all get out and in again, would it start to work properly this time?"

Offline Baruch

Re: The sounds of Saturn
« Reply #20 on: July 21, 2018, 10:38:30 PM »
Since materialists can't separate living from non-living, it goes without even a thought, that lots of things are living, we just don't recognize it.  Or is it that lots of people are non-living, and are in denial?
שלום

Re: The sounds of Saturn
« Reply #21 on: July 22, 2018, 06:09:12 AM »
Water has been called "the universal solvent". Handy feature to have.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Re: The sounds of Saturn
« Reply #22 on: July 22, 2018, 05:52:47 PM »
What a coincidence that hydrogen, helium, carbon and oxygen are the four most abundant elements in the interstellar medium! Fancy that!
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
"The Republicans went from Abraham Lincoln to Sarah Palin to Donald Trump. No wonder they don't believe in evolution."
Any Borowitz

Offline Baruch

Re: The sounds of Saturn
« Reply #23 on: July 22, 2018, 06:04:56 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
What a coincidence that hydrogen, helium, carbon and oxygen are the four most abundant elements in the interstellar medium! Fancy that!

Yes, the more prevalent life form in the universe are sentient water balloons that speak in a high pitched voice ;-))
שלום

Offline Cavebear

Re: The sounds of Saturn
« Reply #24 on: July 25, 2018, 11:30:32 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Polywater?  Only when your parrot takes a piss.

Put a potato chip in pure alcohol and it doesn't get "wet" (I think).  Might be liquid CO2.  Or both.  I forget.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline trdsf

Re: The sounds of Saturn
« Reply #25 on: July 25, 2018, 01:22:44 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Put a potato chip in pure alcohol and it doesn't get "wet" (I think).  Might be liquid CO2.  Or both.  I forget.
Methanol or ethanol?  I think you're right about CO2
Sir Terry Pratchett, on being told about the theory that the universe is a computer simulation: "If we all get out and in again, would it start to work properly this time?"

Offline Cavebear

Re: The sounds of Saturn
« Reply #26 on: July 25, 2018, 03:15:58 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Methanol or ethanol?  I think you're right about CO2

Which-Ever (LOL!)  The point was that not everything has to revolve around water.  Silicon with ammonia and ethane or methane has chemical possibilities.  Also, there are possibilities for silicon or geranium.  Farter along (literally, there is sulphur involved), there are silicon oxides which has some flexible connections to hydrogen.  Call it "bad water" but if that's all you have, it might works.  And that's as far as I can push my college chemistry.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline trdsf

Re: The sounds of Saturn
« Reply #27 on: July 25, 2018, 11:23:30 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Which-Ever (LOL!)  The point was that not everything has to revolve around water.  Silicon with ammonia and ethane or methane has chemical possibilities.  Also, there are possibilities for silicon or geranium.  Farter along (literally, there is sulphur involved), there are silicon oxides which has some flexible connections to hydrogen.  Call it "bad water" but if that's all you have, it might works.  And that's as far as I can push my college chemistry.
I think silicon is unlikely as an analogue for carbon -- it doesn't chain in quite the same way.  However, carbon chains in ammonia, ethane, methane, or any other clement liquid remain a perfectly reasonable option.  Carbon really is an element like no other; that's why we have organic chemistry based on carbon, but no analogous chemistry for silicon.
Sir Terry Pratchett, on being told about the theory that the universe is a computer simulation: "If we all get out and in again, would it start to work properly this time?"

Offline Baruch

Re: The sounds of Saturn
« Reply #28 on: July 26, 2018, 12:20:47 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I think silicon is unlikely as an analogue for carbon -- it doesn't chain in quite the same way.  However, carbon chains in ammonia, ethane, methane, or any other clement liquid remain a perfectly reasonable option.  Carbon really is an element like no other; that's why we have organic chemistry based on carbon, but no analogous chemistry for silicon.

Silicon and carbon can have 4 bonds ... but the carbon bonds lie flat, but the silicon bonds are at odd angles.  DNA works because of the flatness of the components of the helix.
שלום

Offline Cavebear

Re: The sounds of Saturn
« Reply #29 on: August 01, 2018, 03:38:46 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Silicon and carbon can have 4 bonds ... but the carbon bonds lie flat, but the silicon bonds are at odd angles.  DNA works because of the flatness of the components of the helix.

When you talk serious like that, you are great!  Stick to it.  So the carbon bonds lay flat for us.  Could a non-flat silicon 3-helix silicon structure replicate?
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

 

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk