Author Topic: The sounds of Saturn  (Read 633 times)

The sounds of Saturn
« on: July 12, 2018, 02:59:05 PM »
Sixty-two years after its debut it appears that the movie "Forbidden Planet" got the sounds right.

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“You are the sky. Everything else – it’s just the weather.”

― Pema Chödrön

Offline Munch

Re: The sounds of Saturn
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2018, 03:11:21 PM »
Spooky. I remember watching a documentary that explained the physics of Saturn and Jupiter, how though there is no solid surface, the immense gravity at its core is so heavy the molecules of its gases become so dense it's like a solid mass. Though nothing could get near its core due to this immense mass crushing anything the deeper it goes
« Last Edit: July 12, 2018, 04:46:28 PM by Munch »

Re: The sounds of Saturn
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2018, 04:32:51 PM »
"
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Spooky. I remember watching a documentary that explained the physics of Satan and Jupiter, ...
That would be no shit spooky.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Offline Munch

Re: The sounds of Saturn
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2018, 04:47:13 PM »
Apparently my auto correct was set to christian mode

Offline Cavebear

Re: The sounds of Saturn
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2018, 03:45:58 AM »
It seems that all the planets bey9nd Earth have some body of liquid water in or at their moons due to internal or tidal forces.  That increases the possibility of simple life everywhere unless our solar system is unique and I doubt that.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Re: The sounds of Saturn
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2018, 09:44:38 AM »
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It seems that all the planets bey9nd Earth have some body of liquid water in or at their moons due to internal or tidal forces.  That increases the possibility of simple life everywhere unless our solar system is unique and I doubt that.

I'm almost completely certain that there is alien life somewhere out there in this vast universe. The question is, can we find it or is the hay stack too big for us to find the needle? And even if we could find a life-bearing planet, could we even observe or interact with it? Because of how long it takes for light to reach us, any life bearing planet we discover could already be desolate by the time we see it.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2018, 12:03:06 PM by Blackleaf »
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville

Re: The sounds of Saturn
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2018, 10:10:57 AM »
Two trillion galaxies, one hundred billion stars per galaxy. That's ... many ... system that might harbor life. If one in a billion had intelligent life we still would be too far away to hear from them before they passed into history. Many probably already have.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Re: The sounds of Saturn
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2018, 10:12:15 AM »
BTW, I told that to one of my cousins and he replied that he'd heard of billionaires, but not trillionaires, so I must be making that one up.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Offline Baruch

Re: The sounds of Saturn
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2018, 01:04:10 PM »
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BTW, I told that to one of my cousins and he replied that he'd heard of billionaires, but not trillionaires, so I must be making that one up.

Not really, the Rothschilds, the Pope, and the Queen may be ... trillionaires.  They don't have to report to the IRS.
שלום

Offline trdsf

Re: The sounds of Saturn
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2018, 01:24:13 PM »
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I'm almost completely certain that there is alien life somewhere out there in this vast universe. The question is, can we find it or is the hay stack too big for us to find the needle? And even if we could find a life-bearing planet, could we even observe or interact with it? Because of how long it takes for light to reach us, any life bearing planet we discover could already be desolate by the time we see it.
Everything we know about life just from our own one example here on Earth is that once it gets started, it gets into everything.  Think about some of the extreme environments that even within the last twenty five years or so, biologists would have all but ruled out as habitats -- and yet they host microorganisms.  Where we used to have a very specific list for life: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login, liquid water, temperatures within a particular range, solar/tidal/geothermal energy sources.  Now it's beginning to look like a solvent (not necessarily water) and an energy source could be all it takes to build an environment.

So I'm bullish on (very simple) life within our own solar system.  I'm optimistic for the depths of Hellas Basin, where Martian atmospheric pressures just allow for the presence of liquid water.  I'm also optimistic about the remains of the Martian Oceanus Borealis (if it proves to have existed; there are tantalizing clues but nothing definitive), and Martian permafrost, and the Martian polar caps.  Got to go where the water is, at least on Mars.

But Mars is kind of low-hanging fruit, life-wise.  Enough material has transferred between the Earth and Mars over geologic time that it would not be surprising to find Martian life is DNA based either because it was contaminated by Earth life... or that Earth life started on Mars and found a more stable and suitable environment here.

So the really interesting places are Ganymede and Europa at Jupiter, and Enceladus at Saturn, because any life there would almost have had to independently start there.  While it's relatively easy to get impact ejecta from Earth to Mars, it's all but impossible to get it much further out, or get it from there to here.  I know I had an article on that, but I can't find it and I will keep up the search until I do.

Target Number One must be Enceladus.  It's effectively isolated from interplanetary contamination from Earth (and Mars), and thanks to Cassini's flythrough of the Enceladan geysers, we're confident there should be active You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login there (or something very like them), and we know those are viable habitats.  Europa is close enough to Jupiter that it is expected to have them too, as a result of tidal flexing, but Enceladus so far as I know is the only extraterrestrial place we have direct evidence to indicate them.
Sir Terry Pratchett, on being told about the theory that the universe is a computer simulation: "If we all get out and in again, would it start to work properly this time?"

Offline Cavebear

Re: The sounds of Saturn
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2018, 04:10:44 AM »
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Everything we know about life just from our own one example here on Earth is that once it gets started, it gets into everything.  Think about some of the extreme environments that even within the last twenty five years or so, biologists would have all but ruled out as habitats -- and yet they host microorganisms.  Where we used to have a very specific list for life: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login, liquid water, temperatures within a particular range, solar/tidal/geothermal energy sources.  Now it's beginning to look like a solvent (not necessarily water) and an energy source could be all it takes to build an environment.

So I'm bullish on (very simple) life within our own solar system.  I'm optimistic for the depths of Hellas Basin, where Martian atmospheric pressures just allow for the presence of liquid water.  I'm also optimistic about the remains of the Martian Oceanus Borealis (if it proves to have existed; there are tantalizing clues but nothing definitive), and Martian permafrost, and the Martian polar caps.  Got to go where the water is, at least on Mars.

But Mars is kind of low-hanging fruit, life-wise.  Enough material has transferred between the Earth and Mars over geologic time that it would not be surprising to find Martian life is DNA based either because it was contaminated by Earth life... or that Earth life started on Mars and found a more stable and suitable environment here.

So the really interesting places are Ganymede and Europa at Jupiter, and Enceladus at Saturn, because any life there would almost have had to independently start there.  While it's relatively easy to get impact ejecta from Earth to Mars, it's all but impossible to get it much further out, or get it from there to here.  I know I had an article on that, but I can't find it and I will keep up the search until I do.

Target Number One must be Enceladus.  It's effectively isolated from interplanetary contamination from Earth (and Mars), and thanks to Cassini's flythrough of the Enceladan geysers, we're confident there should be active You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login there (or something very like them), and we know those are viable habitats.  Europa is close enough to Jupiter that it is expected to have them too, as a result of tidal flexing, but Enceladus so far as I know is the only extraterrestrial place we have direct evidence to indicate them.

The slightest RNA type molecule in any spot on a body of water, and evolution is on its way.  And there are so MANY places that can have liquid water that the numbers are staggering.  And who says it needs water...?
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Re: The sounds of Saturn
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2018, 06:11:53 AM »
Nobody is saying you can't have life unless liquid water is present, just that everywhere we've studied we've found that liquid water has life in it.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Offline Baruch

Re: The sounds of Saturn
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2018, 07:29:34 PM »
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Nobody is saying you can't have life unless liquid water is present, just that everywhere we've studied we've found that liquid water has life in it.

Covalent bonds are very useful.  Crystalline life forms like what Lohr assisted, are too rigid to count as life itself, more like a virus that uses other life forms.
שלום

Offline Cavebear

Re: The sounds of Saturn
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2018, 07:18:59 AM »
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Nobody is saying you can't have life unless liquid water is present, just that everywhere we've studied we've found that liquid water has life in it.

Well, I generally agree of course.  Water-based life makes a lot of sense as it has a lot of advantages.  But there are some other possilbilities.  One is here.  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

I don't pretend to understand the details, but I can slightly see some connections in a few other systems.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Re: The sounds of Saturn
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2018, 07:23:15 AM »
I don't get the "but". I wasn't preaching water exclusivity.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

 

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