Author Topic: Response to "The Lazy Millenial"  (Read 1144 times)

Re: Response to "The Lazy Millenial"
« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2018, 12:48:25 PM »
The isolating and labeling 'generations' is close to being a long time peeve for me.  A generation is generally thought of as 30 years.  But counting from when?  As any society is born, lives and goes on, it changes--all of them do.  So, one 'generation' is reacting to what their parents and grandparents did---out of necessity, since none of us live in a vacuum.  Isolating one chunk of time and labeling it as 'The World's Greatest' or Gen X or whatever is simply meaningless.  The entire concept of generations is flawed at its very, very best.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline Munch

Re: Response to "The Lazy Millenial"
« Reply #16 on: July 08, 2018, 02:25:04 PM »
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Everyone has always made issues in every generation. Social media makes this generations louder. And some of us who are my age, 23, which saw the recession and the decline of economy have come out different than others. Student loans and the college dream seems unrealistic these days but we do them anyway. Grit your teeth and get it done and abandon personal pride.

Sometimes you have to work a shit job that barely pays and deal with people who scream at you. Sometimes you have to lose sleep to get to work early or to write that important essay. Sometimes you have to decide between eating lunch today or saving to get your car fixed tomorrow.

These events happen and it’s natural to complain, and it’s admirable  to strive to change them. But to blame them on everyone else and expect handouts is selfish at least and insulting to people who are working back break as much as you are. The American spirit used to contain that grit your teeth and get through it mentality and to an extent it still does, people just need to be able to do it again while trying still to raise everyone up.

I often hear it from my mother, not just for how things were when she was young, but how thing were for my grandfather as he told her. There were problems in the past to deal with, as much as we have problems to deal with now. This generation having a cost of buying a place problem, well back then it was being able to afford a decent meal or living off of what you had, or taking a shit in an outhouse, or repairing your own cloths by hand.
Today people will say they had a horrible day due to work stress or school stress, back then, you didn't have the choice even to complain about it, you'd be tanned for it by your piers.

Every generation has shit to deal with, but blaming the last generation for problems today when they had your own shit to deal with is just meaningless and vapid.

in 30 years time, what if the generation then complains about stuff we are or aren't doing now has had an impact on them. Do we care enough to change that now, will we even care when it happens in 30 years? I doubt most every day people of the current generation really give a shit because they want to just deal with problems they have today, just like the last generation did then.

Offline aitm

Re: Response to "The Lazy Millenial"
« Reply #17 on: July 08, 2018, 04:23:51 PM »
I can only offer my observations from my work. I am a construction worker. Not the most enticing line of work, but if you put in the time and learn you can climb the ladder pretty quickly to make some decent money. I clear about 90 a year, which I find comfortable. More than that though is I have a lot of freedom with my job, but I rarely use it.

70% of the workers who show up EVERYDAY are of ethnic backgrounds south of our border. 100% of them show up everyday.
I can't get "traditional" americans to show up three days in a row.
Put the mother fucking phone down. GODDAMMIT!
Stop making fucking excuses to have to go home. FUCK MAN.
IF you have no intention of learning the trade then at least listen and try to do what you are doing correctly. Why the fuck would I keep you around in order to have someone else re-do it?

I have been asked many....many times. How do I get to where you are? Simple.
Be at work every day.
Outwork the people around you.
Did I mention be at work everyday?
It is that simple.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Offline Baruch

Re: Response to "The Lazy Millenial"
« Reply #18 on: July 08, 2018, 07:03:38 PM »
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I'm 74 and I think old people are idiots and losers.  If anyone is going to save humanity and the planet, it sure as Hell ain't us. 

Whether the younger generations can make it better remains to be seen, but it's good to remind them from time to time that they are a bunch of losers so they don't get over confident.

Yes, middle aged people do most of the work in the world, young adults are the future, always will be.  Today, things being what they are, middle age is being extended into your 60s, because people can't retire like they planned (health bills).

It is necessary to have generations, so politicians can hire one half of the population to kill the other half (Jay Gould).  Ageism isn't any better one way or the other.  Just another human vice that the powerful can exploit.

Privileged college students then or now, aren't the typical young adult.  Though as access to college has spiraled out of control (send everyone to college now!) it has become more like it.  Academia isn't the real world, back in Plato's day nor today.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2018, 07:07:36 PM by Baruch »
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Offline Shiranu

Re: Response to "The Lazy Millenial"
« Reply #19 on: July 09, 2018, 12:25:44 AM »
I am interested in making a comprehensive list so that I can just link this thread every time this bullshit get's brought up, so let's go ahead and get started...

Quote
...but there is plenty of counter arguments to such things and proof why thing are better today.

Provide them then.

Housing:
[1]The median household cost, adjusted for inflation, was $30,600. Today the media household costs $199,600 (I'm being kind saying today; that number is from 20 years ago and has gone up)
[2]The median individual income in 1945 was $16,069. Today the median individual income is is $26,989. So while housing costs have increased more than 6-fold, median income has only gone up by about half.
[7]In 1975, 88% of 24-35 year olds had lived away from their parents. In 2016, that number has dropped to 74%.

Medical Costs:
[3]In 1958, a worker would have to work 118 hours (nearly 15 days) to pay for the average medical expense. Today, workers have to work 467 hours (57 days) to pay for the average medical expense.
[4][5]Since 1987, the rate of uninsured Americans has stayed consistently around 15% of the population. Only once Obamacare was introduced did that number drop from a peak of 18% to 10%, but as the Republicans have begun to dismantle the ACA the numbers have begun to rise again, currently sitting at nearly 12% of the population.

Bankruptcy:
[6]Much like healthcare, the number of people filing for bankruptcy consistently was rising, hitting it's peak in 2005 with over 650-per-100,000 being filed. After the ACA was passed, that number had fallen into the 100s-200s-per-100,000, but again as the law has been stripped of all it's power that number has continued to increase.

Student Loans and College Prices:
[8]The United States student loan debt is up to $1.3 trillion dollars and has been raising by several percentage points every year; this is more than both the total credit card and car loan debt in the United States and only behind mortgage debt.
[8]The average student loan debt is $37,000, with a delinquency or default rate of 11.2%.
[9]The average head-of-household under 40 spends $404 a month on student loans, more than the average cost of groceries. For the average $24 year old, that payment alone is a quarter of the average monthly salary.
[9]Between 1993 and 2013, the cost of a private university tuition jumped by 44%. At public institutions, this number jumped by 79%.
[9]Pell Grants (non-loan federal payments for student's w/o a bachelors' degree) in 2000 covered 75% of the average tuition cost; today it covers less than 30%, and is a target of Republicans for further slashes in funding.
[9]State funding for higher-education remains 23% lower than it was before the Great Recession. This number is 50% lower than it was in 1981.

Overqualified for Work:
[10]25% of employees with a bachelor's degree are overqualified for the job they hold.
[10]Workers in 1980 who were overqualifed earned 35% less than those in "good-fit" jobs. In 2014, women made 48% less and men 50% less.

Working Hours:
[11]In 1980 the average worker clocked in 1638.3 hours a year. In 2015, workers clocked in an average of 1811.6 hours a year.
[11]Over 40% of American workers put in over 50 hours a week, and 20% put in over 60.

Suicide Rates
[12]Suicide rates are the highest they have been since 1950, and over 1% higher than they were in the 1980s.



But really, I'll leave it up to someone who put in many hours worth of effort into this to sum it up...


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[1]https://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/23/how-much-housing-prices-have-risen-since-1940.html
[2]https://www.russellsage.org/sites/all/files/chartbook/Income%20and%20Earnings.pdf
[3]https://www.forbes.com/sites/chrisconover/2012/12/22/the-cost-of-health-care-1958-vs-2012/#6e1ce2e44910
[4]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_insurance_coverage_in_the_United_States#/media/File:U.S._Uninsured_and_Uninsured_Rate_(1987_to_2008).JPG
[5]https://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/11/the-number-of-americans-without-health-insurance-rose-in-first-quarter-2017.html
[6]https://www.economist.com/news/2010/08/18/going-for-broke?story_id=168431196
[7]https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2017/demo/p20-579.html
[8]https://www.forbes.com/sites/workday/2018/07/06/the-adobe-digital-academy-an-apprenticeship-for-todays-world/#2a8930507931
[9]http://www.businessinsider.com/student-debt-crisis-started-in-the-1980s-2015-10
[10]http://time.com/money/4658059/college-grads-workers-overqualified-jobs/
[11]https://www.fool.com/careers/2017/12/17/heres-how-many-hours-the-average-american-works-pe.aspx

« Last Edit: July 09, 2018, 12:30:31 AM by Shiranu »
“And, for an instant, she stared directly into those soft blue eyes and knew, with an instinctive mammalian certainty, that the exceedingly rich were no longer even remotely human.” - William Gibson, "Count Zero"

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Offline Draconic Aiur

Re: Response to "The Lazy Millenial"
« Reply #20 on: July 09, 2018, 01:04:11 AM »
Most the shit thrown at millennial's can say the same for every other goddamn generation. Every generation has faults but no, the "millennial" are the bad guys. I see fuckin Millennial making fun of them selves and calling others snowflakes while bundling Millennial and Generation Z together.

Millennial doesn't equal Generation Z who are very much addicted to social media. Then we have the Baby Fucking Boomers who are addicted as shit to social media and hog the jobs and tell Generation Y & Z wee are not doing our best. Well this is because they fucked everything up and once were liberal as fuck now conservative as shit. Generation X manages the fuck up the baby boomers created and don't care about anyone but themselves. Then we have the Pre Baby Boomers who are enjoying sucking the lives of all the younger generations like vampires and telling those generations "when back in the day....". Get off your fucking high horse you fucking old ass greedy politician.

Older generations: ll it's the newer generations fault.

Me: no it's your own you fucking jack hols, and stop hogging all the jobs w had to go to colleges and getting debt to get. I swear us "greedy " have to take all the dead end jobs that don't pay shit while filling over 200 job applications to get while living in our parents houses and or in a shitty apartment because everything is so goddamn expensive unlike your 1950's $1,000 bachelors education.

Offline Cavebear

Re: Response to "The Lazy Millenial"
« Reply #21 on: July 09, 2018, 02:51:14 AM »
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I can only offer my observations from my work. I am a construction worker. Not the most enticing line of work, but if you put in the time and learn you can climb the ladder pretty quickly to make some decent money. I clear about 90 a year, which I find comfortable. More than that though is I have a lot of freedom with my job, but I rarely use it.

70% of the workers who show up EVERYDAY are of ethnic backgrounds south of our border. 100% of them show up everyday.
I can't get "traditional" americans to show up three days in a row.
Put the mother fucking phone down. GODDAMMIT!
Stop making fucking excuses to have to go home. FUCK MAN.
IF you have no intention of learning the trade then at least listen and try to do what you are doing correctly. Why the fuck would I keep you around in order to have someone else re-do it?

I have been asked many....many times. How do I get to where you are? Simple.
Be at work every day.
Outwork the people around you.
Did I mention be at work everyday?
It is that simple.

Half of success at work is just showing up (but hopefully not sick to infect you co-workers).  The other half is learning to do your job well and not need a lot of supervisor attention.

I did sort of focus on both for 35 years.  In my earliest few career years, if I ran out of work, I asked for more.  I studied what the office did and learned a bit more than my immediate job.  I did my new job better than the longer-employed people.  I consider it sad that doing my job was so easy.  But that's why I got promoted to more challenging jobs. 

I never had a job I couldn't do better than the previous person.  Too many people did just what was required.  I never limited myself to just that.  I always found a way to do it better.  In 15 years, I went from keeping track of chairs and desks to managing office space, to moving whole offices with their desks and phones and files, to managing the entire voice telecommunications system for 14,000 employees nationwide.

And that's where I stopped.  You know the "Peter Principle"?  It says people in a hierarchy tend to rise to their "level of incompetence".  I didn't.  I knew where to stop.  So I had a wonderful last 15 years doing what I did best.  I was offerred promotions, but I knew I wasn't right for those jobs. 

One was to manage an Emergency Management Branch.  They planned for disasters that would never happen.  That's not my way of thinking.  If the nuclear disastaer they planned for happened, I would be in the Appalachians with my go-pack by then, LOL!

Then Management wanted me to be Team Leader for the Congressional Branch.  I was tempted.  One of my first jobs at the agency was supporting Congressional Offices and that was actually what my early reputation was built on.  But things had changed and that office had gone from mangement to subservience.  Yeah, I might have changed that, but who wants to fight with Congress?

I found my perfect place.  Data mining agency telephone services to discover where the vendors were ripping us off.  They hated me!  And as long as they did, I knew I was doing my job right.  I got paid $100,000 my last year, and I saved the agency $10 million.  I slept well each night.

And when I retired, with some person I participated in hiring to replace me, I knew it wouldn't work (it was a limited choice of people HR approved as "qualified").  She wasn't ME.  They eventually put 3 people on my program and even then they couldn't keep it up.  I laughed everytime the older managers asked me to return.

I love being retired.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: Response to "The Lazy Millenial"
« Reply #22 on: July 09, 2018, 01:47:17 PM »
I am so glad Cavebear got gold stars (and GS step raises) for just showing up (yes, the minimum requirement). (sarc).

Yes, things are tough for First World soy boys.  Move to Somalia and die like a man then.
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Offline Cavebear

Re: Response to "The Lazy Millenial"
« Reply #23 on: July 21, 2018, 03:08:32 PM »
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I am so glad Cavebear got gold stars (and GS step raises) for just showing up (yes, the minimum requirement). (sarc).

Yes, things are tough for First World soy boys.  Move to Somalia and die like a man then.

There isn't any positive thing you can't pervert, is there?  I was promoted BECAUSE I made things in my little corner of the universe work better.  I helped people get the right cell phones, I even fixed the damn ceiling lights once when the Building manager said it would take 2 weeks. 

Enjoy your sarc...  I have no use for you.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: Response to "The Lazy Millenial"
« Reply #24 on: July 21, 2018, 03:19:31 PM »
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There isn't any positive thing you can't pervert, is there?  I was promoted BECAUSE I made things in my little corner of the universe work better.  I helped people get the right cell phones, I even fixed the damn ceiling lights once when the Building manager said it would take 2 weeks. 

Enjoy your sarc...  I have no use for you.

I hope you did.  I do the same.  Why the hate?  Or are typos and sarc too sharp for your hide?
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Offline Cavebear

Re: Response to "The Lazy Millenial"
« Reply #25 on: July 21, 2018, 03:22:13 PM »
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I hope you did.  I do the same.  Why the hate?  Or are typos and sarc too sharp for your hide?


No actually, I have no more interest in you.  You are hopeless,
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: Response to "The Lazy Millenial"
« Reply #26 on: July 21, 2018, 10:17:25 PM »
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No actually, I have no more interest in you.  You are hopeless,

Yes, but not just because of Democrats.  Humanity is pretty much a failure in my POV.  Sad.
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Offline Sal1981

Re: Response to "The Lazy Millenial"
« Reply #27 on: July 21, 2018, 10:47:19 PM »
Land of the free, eh?

I don't understand why people want to move to the U.S. in the first place.
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool" --- Richard P. Feynman

Offline Baruch

Re: Response to "The Lazy Millenial"
« Reply #28 on: July 21, 2018, 10:56:44 PM »
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Land of the free, eh?

I don't understand why people want to move to the U.S. in the first place.

Greed.  All the losers and con-artists want to come here, to stop losing and to pull some good capers.
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Offline Shiranu

Re: Response to "The Lazy Millenial"
« Reply #29 on: July 21, 2018, 11:31:07 PM »
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Land of the free, eh?

I don't understand why people want to move to the U.S. in the first place.

It's still a hell of a lot better than the places they leave (Central America mostly, but also lower-class China and India), there are established communities here that either are of the same nationality or speak the same language, and the only exposure they have actually had with "American culture" is the media we have put out for the last 40 years or so... as well as our reputation of being a nation of immigrants, even if that has always only been half the story. We are also much easier to walk to than Canada, and most cant afford to go across the sea to better countries.

Also, we were the global Empire... we had the biggest economy, the greatest global influence and cities like Detroit, LA, New York were THE places to be as a worker or artist. We were sending men to the moon, pioneering new technology, and going through a cultural revolution that saw peace and cultural tolerance come to the forefront of American exceptionalism. We were the shining beacon of the free world, and that alone has an unmeasurable appeal to people fleeing totalitarian and repressive regimes.

The only competition we had in the world was the Soviets, and who would want to choose the Iron Curtain over Pax Americana?

I've said it multiple times before, and I will say it again... the reason I am so critical of America is because I lived at the tail end of the empire, and I got to experience it when it was just coming off it's peak. I want us to be that great country again, but instead we have become the laughing stock of the world and are, with almost no hyperbole intended, looking more and more like we are approaching the sort of theocratic autocracy you see in Erdogan's Turkiye... or the nationalistic dictatorship of Franco's post-civil war Spain... than the leaders of the free world.

But if you are fleeing a third world country... even that sounds appealing, and if you are fleeing a third world country you likely don't even have that information available to you. You only have the glitz and glam we broadcasted to the world.

We have been here before, in some ways... both the Civil War and the Gilded Age both highlighted fissures and warts that stand at the forefront of issues we as Americans deal with today, and I don't think those issues were ever truly fixed but rather just brushed under the rug. Eventually America WILL have to deal with the social and economic inequality that has plagued us for hundreds of years, or it will tear us apart. It seems like every century there is at least two or three major incidents that threaten the unity of the Union, and I have to give credit where credit is do... Americans have pulled together at the last moment each time and gotten things worked out.

But you can only run your hand along the edge so long before you will get cut. If the American government is even only a tenth as compromised by Russian (let's call a spade a spade, Soviet) power as it seems then it's going to be a deep as hell hole we are going to have to dig ourselves out of, and I really do believe Trump is going to win a second term... so that's 6 more years of digging.

Sorry, I have had too much time to think lately so my posts are becoming way too long.
“And, for an instant, she stared directly into those soft blue eyes and knew, with an instinctive mammalian certainty, that the exceedingly rich were no longer even remotely human.” - William Gibson, "Count Zero"

A si i-Dhúath ú-orthor. Ú or le a ú or nin.

 

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