Powerful tech companies are the enemies of free speech

Started by GSOgymrat, July 07, 2018, 10:00:06 AM

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GSOgymrat

When looking at the situation in the context of free speech issue, there are much to say.
Not just the tech giants have seized our everyday life, there are different aspects of free speech.
[/quote]

There are legal issues regarding freedom of speech, e.g. Citizens United v. FEC, and then there are cultural issues, such as public pressure for employers to fire employees based on what he or she says online.

Baruch

Quote from: GSOgymrat on July 10, 2018, 09:08:02 AM
When looking at the situation in the context of free speech issue, there are much to say.
Not just the tech giants have seized our everyday life, there are different aspects of free speech.


There are legal issues regarding freedom of speech, e.g. Citizens United v. FEC, and then there are cultural issues, such as public pressure for employers to fire employees based on what he or she says online.

Floggings will continue until morale improves  - Captain Bligh.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

orcus

I remember that Alexis de Tocqueville once said that the USA effectively constrained free speech far more severely than European monarchies did, since there was an incessant pressure to conform in every area of life. You can't lay all the blame for constraints on free speech on the Oligarchy. If anything these tech oligarchs are providing an escape from the day-to-day constraints on free speech that working, democratic people like yourselves thoughtlessly impose on your fellow man/woman/transperson/otherkin.

Baruch

Quote from: orcus on July 10, 2018, 10:05:22 PM
I remember that Alexis de Tocqueville once said that the USA effectively constrained free speech far more severely than European monarchies did, since there was an incessant pressure to conform in every area of life. You can't lay all the blame for constraints on free speech on the Oligarchy. If anything these tech oligarchs are providing an escape from the day-to-day constraints on free speech that working, democratic people like yourselves thoughtlessly impose on your fellow man/woman/transperson/otherkin.

Human beings are naturally status-quo preserving, and so enforce conformity, because non-conformity is thought to be upsetting to the status-quo.  And then there are the ambitious people who want to change everything (for good or ill).  Agent provocateurs are always seen as the enemies of the State.  That is why we want all the nut cases on Facebook, so that Zuckerberg can act as busybody/censor for the authorities.  In the American case, we are ironically religious, in a way Europeans are not, because we are free of establishment of official religion.  For Europeans, opposing religion was part of opposing the government ... not so in the US.  People in the US who see "religious establishment" in place, are European in perspective .. and are noticeably influenced by European political movements, not American ones.  Atheists naturally have this paranoia, about the existence of any religion at any level.  But the actual American religion is secular and capitalist ... get rich quick!
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Cavebear

Quote from: orcus on July 10, 2018, 10:05:22 PM
I remember that Alexis de Tocqueville once said that the USA effectively constrained free speech far more severely than European monarchies did, since there was an incessant pressure to conform in every area of life. You can't lay all the blame for constraints on free speech on the Oligarchy. If anything these tech oligarchs are providing an escape from the day-to-day constraints on free speech that working, democratic people like yourselves thoughtlessly impose on your fellow man/woman/transperson/otherkin.

Provide evidence, please.  De Tocqueville very muched liked the US political system.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Baruch

Quote from: Cavebear on July 13, 2018, 03:10:52 AM
Provide evidence, please.  De Tocqueville very muched liked the US political system.

See Tyranny of the Majority section ... lazy bear ...

http://www.crf-usa.org/election-central/de-tocqueville-america.html
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Cavebear

Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

orcus

For the lazy fucks:

Quote"I know no country," he wrote, "in which, generally speaking, there is less independence of mind and true freedom of discussion than in America." He added that the lack of great writers in the United States was due to the absence of "freedom of spirit" brought on by a majority intolerant of minority views.

"If ever freedom is lost in America," de Tocqueville warned, "that will be due to the ... majority driving minorities to desperation...." De Tocqueville did identify certain elements at work in American democracy which checked the formation of a tyranny of the majority. Among these elements were the large number of independent associations, the press and the courts.

Cavebear

Quote from: orcus on July 13, 2018, 10:52:20 AM
For the lazy fucks:

Having read De Tocqueville  and knowing his general approval of American political society at the time (and not recalling that particular passage) I'm wondering where the "however" part comes in wherein he speaks of his admiration.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Baruch

Quote from: Cavebear on July 13, 2018, 12:15:36 PM
Having read De Tocqueville  and knowing his general approval of American political society at the time (and not recalling that particular passage) I'm wondering where the "however" part comes in wherein he speaks of his admiration.

You read De Tocqueville how you want to read him ... and unfortunately Orcus doesn't give quotes, without ellipses ... or with context.

Read the whole paragraph where that occurs, expert ... then tell us what is missing from the quotes, and what the context is ...

Doesn't change that De Tocqueville was a French aristocrat ...
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

AllPurposeAtheist

Anyone remember movies and series such as Max Headroom and others somewhat warning the public about the giant corporations controlling the news and media?  Even then such devices as the ubiquitous cell phone barely existed or were in their infancy.  I wonder had the writers and creators of the series seen the rise of cell phones and Facebook how much different the scripts would have been.  Edison Carter today would probably be indicted by Robert Mueller.. go figure, eh?
All hail my new signature!

Admit it. You're secretly green with envy.

Baruch

Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on July 23, 2018, 01:49:33 AM
Anyone remember movies and series such as Max Headroom and others somewhat warning the public about the giant corporations controlling the news and media?  Even then such devices as the ubiquitous cell phone barely existed or were in their infancy.  I wonder had the writers and creators of the series seen the rise of cell phones and Facebook how much different the scripts would have been.  Edison Carter today would probably be indicted by Robert Mueller.. go figure, eh?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Headroom_(TV_series)

Like "1984" it is a blueprint, not entertainment ;-(
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

trdsf

I think the bigger threat from these big data companies like Google and Facebook and all is that they are the enemies of personal space and privacy -- Google because they think that all data belongs to them, Facebook and Twitter because they try to turn their users' lives into a daily "reality" show*.

Facebook and Twitter and social media like that take it a step further and try to pretend that every detail of their users' mundane lives are of interest to the whole world, and thereby trick them into willingly surrendering personal information that they otherwise wouldn't have.  And it's all for the mundane, boring selfish reason of corporate profit.  They don't care about whether they're promoting or repressing free speech, as long as they can either monetize it directly, or advertise alongside it.




* - I despise the label 'reality show' -- the deliberately contrived premises of Big Brother, Survivor, et al., are in no way shape or form any sort of day to day reality.  They're nothing more than bread and circuses, a bloodless psychological PG version of the Colosseum games.
"My faith in the Constitution is whole, it is complete, it is total, and I am not going to sit here and be an idle spectator to the diminution, the subversion, the destruction of the Constitution." -- Barbara Jordan

Unbeliever

God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

Baruch

Quote from: Unbeliever on July 23, 2018, 01:55:25 PM
Well, that was impressively uninformative.

Max was a good example of early AU ... artificial unintelligence ;-)
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.