Author Topic: Origins of the Universe. (Creation versus science. Do they contradict?)  (Read 6353 times)

Offline Baruch

Re: Origins of the Universe. (Creation versus science. Do they contradict?)
« Reply #465 on: August 09, 2018, 09:25:41 PM »
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And of course it's worth mentioning that never in the history of the planet has a secular humanist state waged war on *anyone*... mainly because there's never been a secular humanist state.  France and Norway and Japan and the Czech Republic are getting close, though.

There have been governments that have practiced state atheism, as a reaction against a state religion imposed by an overthrown government: the Bolsheviks banning the Russian Orthodox Church comes to mind.  However, these have always been political acts; had the Russian Orthodox Church supported the Red Army rather than the White Army in the Russian Revolution, there's absolutely no doubt that they would have maintained their status under the new regime.

Also, if you look at the structure of Stalin's Russia, or North Korea under the Kims, those are religious states.  They are dedicated to the worship of their leader, from whom all good things come and to whom all praise must go or else.  The Kims take it even further than Stalin did, ascribing supernatural powers to their leaders -- Kim Il-sung's birthplace is a place of pilgrimage, not unlike Vatican City; miraculous events are said to have happened when Kim Jong-Il was born (like winter turning suddenly to spring)... this is not atheistic behavior, this is the leader as god and the state as his official church.

You just redefined religion again.  In which case all ideology (including personal worship of Obama etc) are religions.  Are there any true atheists?
שלום

Offline Cavebear

Re: Origins of the Universe. (Creation versus science. Do they contradict?)
« Reply #466 on: August 12, 2018, 05:10:25 AM »
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Perhaps I am wrong in the understanding of the Multiverse where scientists theorised that there are such a numerous amount of universes, infinite amounts, that the possibility that you are somewhere in the exact circumstances as you are living here, and there will also be many more versions of you in other circumstances and environments.

I thought the remark that in some other multiverse, there will be a Universe where half of everyone is Theists, and the other half not.
I think this was an interesting conclusion.
I do not have to agree with the thought, but I found it interesting, and I still love it.

But think about this one.
Somewhere there is another Universe with an Earth where everyone is Theist, lets say, Christian.
And they prosper.
Then there is another Earth where everyone was Atheist!
Well, there will be only one living being left after they all killed each other.

I still love it!

Your assumption is just an assumption.  You assume that the there are other universes, you assume that there are Christian ones where everything is sweetness and light, you assume that an atheist universe would be horrid.  One could equally assume the opposite and for very good reasons.

Your assumption of only the positive outcomes of many possibilities in your direction is rather laughable.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Re: Origins of the Universe. (Creation versus science. Do they contradict?)
« Reply #467 on: August 18, 2018, 02:25:28 AM »
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Well, the Bible never said the Universe is 6,000 years old as you can see from my expression.
It says the Universe is 6,000 years old, plus the time before the first day!

you started out good, but you screwed it up. There isnt any place in the Bible that says how old the earth is. That is the work of a busy-body theologist. yes busy-body; as in they were doing something they weren't supposed to be doing.

The Bible doesnt give us any clue of how old the earth is. The Bible doesnt give us any formula to figure out how old the earth is. Instead a theologist saw a geneology in the Bible and started messing around with it. (nevermind that that same theologist will readily admit that no one wrote anything down until 3,000 years after the fact) So this busy-body was messin around with a geneology and decided the earth is 6,000 years old. That is a problem. I will have to find the verse ... maybe II Corinthians Paul gives a commandment to not put any stock or faith in geneologies. So if you are believing the earth is 6,000 years old based on a geneology, you are violating a direct commandment from one of the leaders of the Christian church.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2018, 02:28:41 AM by fencerider »
not expecting god to show up, but if he does we’re going to have to beat the prick up.

Offline aitm

Re: Origins of the Universe. (Creation versus science. Do they contradict?)
« Reply #468 on: August 18, 2018, 06:59:24 PM »
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Somewhere there is another Universe with an Earth where everyone is Theist, lets say, Christian.
And they prosper.
Then there is another Earth where everyone was Atheist!
Well, there will be only one living being left after they all killed each other.


Right, because EVERYONE knows that CHRISTIANS have NEVER had wars with and killed other CHRISTIANS.....LOLOLOL... what a meathead.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Re: Origins of the Universe. (Creation versus science. Do they contradict?)
« Reply #469 on: August 18, 2018, 07:38:11 PM »
Yeah, Christians never torture other Christians:

Quote from: Clemente Diaz Aguilar
My captors stole  everything from me...Those who captured me, in front of me, divided up my money, and later they led me into the hands of the torturers. In the long hours of torture, they asked me constantly about other pastors...of some churches in the capital; They asked me also about my views on liberation theology and about the liberation of the people of Israel. The torturers, tired of doing so much damage to me, rested for awhile; then, I recognized some of them: two are members of a singing duo from these churches [Verbo and Mission Elim]; I begged [them] to recognize me because I recognized them; then they asked me questions about my capture, my complete name, my address, my church and my activities. When they realized I was not the person they were looking for, they begged my forgiveness, saying,"Brother, we are also Christians.

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« Last Edit: August 18, 2018, 07:40:35 PM by Unbeliever »
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"The Republicans went from Abraham Lincoln to Sarah Palin to Donald Trump. No wonder they don't believe in evolution."
Any Borowitz

Offline Mr.Obvious

Re: Origins of the Universe. (Creation versus science. Do they contradict?)
« Reply #470 on: August 19, 2018, 10:33:32 AM »
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Perhaps I am wrong in the understanding of the Multiverse where scientists theorised that there are such a numerous amount of universes, infinite amounts, that the possibility that you are somewhere in the exact circumstances as you are living here, and there will also be many more versions of you in other circumstances and environments.

I thought the remark that in some other multiverse, there will be a Universe where half of everyone is Theists, and the other half not.
I think this was an interesting conclusion.
I do not have to agree with the thought, but I found it interesting, and I still love it.

But think about this one.
Somewhere there is another Universe with an Earth where everyone is Theist, lets say, Christian.
And they prosper.
Then there is another Earth where everyone was Atheist!
Well, there will be only one living being left after they all killed each other.

I still love it!

If there is an infinite amount of universes, there is actually an infinite amount of universes that you described, both in the theist and in the atheist variant.
Furthermore, there is also an infinite amount of universes in which the things are reversed, with theists all killing eachother and atheist prospering.

Looking into could-be's and what-nots in an infinite multiverse isn't going to get you anywhere; it's always moot. Rick and Morty 101.
"If we have to go down, we go down together!"
- Your mum, requesting 69 last night.


Re: Origins of the Universe. (Creation versus science. Do they contradict?)
« Reply #471 on: August 19, 2018, 06:17:44 PM »
Just going to be honest here.

In 100, 000 years, we will be exactly as close to understanding the origins of the universe as we are now.


Re: Origins of the Universe. (Creation versus science. Do they contradict?)
« Reply #472 on: August 19, 2018, 06:44:31 PM »
Whadda ya mean "we" paleface? ;-)
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"The Republicans went from Abraham Lincoln to Sarah Palin to Donald Trump. No wonder they don't believe in evolution."
Any Borowitz

Offline Cavebear

Re: Origins of the Universe. (Creation versus science. Do they contradict?)
« Reply #473 on: August 22, 2018, 06:52:00 AM »
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Just going to be honest here.

In 100, 000 years, we will be exactly as close to understanding the origins of the universe as we are now.

Well, actually we DO learn a bit more about the universe than we knew the day before.  So in 100,000 years, that SHOULD add up.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Re: Origins of the Universe. (Creation versus science. Do they contradict?)
« Reply #474 on: August 22, 2018, 01:43:21 PM »
Yes, but "we" won't be here to know it...
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"The Republicans went from Abraham Lincoln to Sarah Palin to Donald Trump. No wonder they don't believe in evolution."
Any Borowitz

Re: Origins of the Universe. (Creation versus science. Do they contradict?)
« Reply #475 on: August 22, 2018, 10:00:27 PM »
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Well, actually we DO learn a bit more about the universe than we knew the day before.  So in 100,000 years, that SHOULD add up.

Indeed it adds up. 

It still gets us no closer to the answer.  That was my point.

Offline trdsf

Re: Origins of the Universe. (Creation versus science. Do they contradict?)
« Reply #476 on: August 23, 2018, 12:36:54 AM »
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Indeed it adds up. 

It still gets us no closer to the answer.  That was my point.
I disagree.  It's not impossible that we can, as a species, eventually untangle what caused the universe to go bang, or whatever it did.  But even if we only continue to asymptotically approach a full understanding, we always get closer.
Sir Terry Pratchett, on being told about the theory that the universe is a computer simulation: "If we all get out and in again, would it start to work properly this time?"

Offline Baruch

Re: Origins of the Universe. (Creation versus science. Do they contradict?)
« Reply #477 on: August 23, 2018, 05:39:27 AM »
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I disagree.  It's not impossible that we can, as a species, eventually untangle what caused the universe to go bang, or whatever it did.  But even if we only continue to asymptotically approach a full understanding, we always get closer.

You are an engineer.  In the old joke, the engineer knows that one can get close enough to the girl, for practical purposes.  The mathematician gives up because he knows that he will never get there (per Parmenides).

I don't agree on your idealistic assessment of humanity ... as you well know.  I despise humanity as a failed species.
שלום

Re: Origins of the Universe. (Creation versus science. Do they contradict?)
« Reply #478 on: August 23, 2018, 06:52:56 AM »
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I disagree.  It's not impossible that we can, as a species, eventually untangle what caused the universe to go bang, or whatever it did.  But even if we only continue to asymptotically approach a full understanding, we always get closer.
Oh, I dont have to wait another 100 000 years to learn about something that was explained in detail by YHWH 3 000 years ago!
Evolution, the religion whereby one believes your children more human, and your parents more ape, than you!

The Human Mind, if it has nothing to do with Evolution...What an incredible entity...
If it does, what a waste!

Atheism, what a wonderful religion, where one believe to believe is erroneous.

Re: Origins of the Universe. (Creation versus science. Do they contradict?)
« Reply #479 on: August 23, 2018, 09:00:42 AM »
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Oh, I dont have to wait another 100 000 years to learn about something that was explained in detail by YHWH 3 000 years ago!
Sure Bugs Bunny, sure.........now go back to your room, your medication will come soon.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

 

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