Author Topic: Origins of the Universe. (Creation versus science. Do they contradict?)  (Read 7000 times)

I think it is a fact if I say that Atheists do not think that the Creation story in Genesis and Science can be reconciled.
The reason for this is that, if the Bible and Science can be reconciled, one would have to admit that the Author of the Bible transmitted this information to humankind living in the 20th and 21st centuries.
Ok, I am not talking about some concocted Creationist Biblical explanation where Science itself needs to be adjusted to suit the Biblical view, no I am talking about taking the latest observed scientific discoveries on the development of our solar system and universe, and establishing if this scientific facts are the same as in the Bible.

Also, I am not talking about twisting the Scripture to somehow make the Bible sound Scientific as does men like Ken Ham and Kent Hoven.

You see, in 2005 a Muslim colleague gave me a CD of a debate between Zakir Naik and William Campbell where they debated at the university of Chicago in 2000. This Muslim thought I might be a candidate to embrace Islam, due to the arguments I and Christians used to have about their religion; and he said that I should watch this video and I will be amazed at how poorly the Bible, and how incredibly the Quran describes Science.
I decided to watch this video, and I was impressed at what I saw. However, I never believe anyone if I did not investigate for myself, and it was in my mind to use this info to destroy any further attempts from Christians to prove the existence of God and the validity of the Bible.

Well, what I learned initially was great stuff, especially where Zakir Naik destroyed William Campbell on the Genesis creation story.
We wont go into the Creation story of the Quran for now.
This was what Naik had to say.
Quote from: Zakir Naik 2000 The Bible and Quran in relation to Science[/quote
Let me make it very clear to everyone; that the Bible which the Christians believe,  is not the words of God; is not the Injil (Gospel of Jesus), which Muslims believe was revealed to the Prophet Jesus (peace be upon him).
This Bible, according to us, may contain the words of God, but it also contains the words of prophets, the words of historians; it contains absurdities, obscenities, as well as innumerable scientific errors!
If there are scientific points mentioned in the Bible, it might be possible, why not?
It might be part of the Word of God in the Bible, but what about the scientific errors?
What about the un-scientific portion?
Can you attribute this to God?
I want to make it very clear to my Christian Brothers and sisters. The purpose of my presentation on the Bible and science is not to hurt any Christian’s feelings. If I do hurt your feelings, I do apologise in advance. The purpose is only to point out that a God’s revelation cannot contain scientific errors.
As Jesus Christ (peace be upon him) said, “Search for the truth and the truth shall set you free.”
You have the Old Testament and the New Testament; now you should follow the last and final testament, the glorious Quran!

He follows this up in front of about 3000 people with:
Quote from: Zakir Naik
1.   The Bible gives a description on the creation of the Universe. It simply tells us that God created everything in 6 days. However, the Biblical description in Genesis 1 – 31 is quite clear in its statement that these 6 days were 24 Hours each, for it is written in Gen 1: 5 that God created Light and called the Darkness Night and the Light He called day. “And it was evening and morning, the first Day.” (Gen 1: 8; 13; 19; 23; 31 gives the description of the other 5 days of creation.)
     a.   Dr. Naik argues as follow. The days of Genesis can never be longer than 24 hours. It consists of an evening and morning. This is a huge problem to the Christian, because “Modern Science today knows that the Universe came into existence over billions of years, and not 6 literal days of 24 hours each!”
     b.   The Quran, however, does not contain this scientific error. It never uses the words evening and morning in conjunction of the days of creation. On the contrary, the word used for “day” can also mean “a long period of time”. Therefore the Quran corresponds to science, the Bible not!
Quote from: Zakir Naik
2.   The Author of the Bible made a huge mistake in Gen 1: 3 when he said “let there be Light!” (This was before the first day) He forgot about this statement when He created the Sun, Moon, and Stars on the fourth day in Gen 1: 14 – 18!
     a.   What was the “light” He created before the first day?
     b.   If God created the Sun and Stars on the Fourth day, He is again in total contradiction with what Science knows today. It is a fact that the Sun and Stars was in existence long before the Earth.
     c.   In Short, the Bible thinks that God created the Earth before the Universe!
Quote from: Zakir Naik
3.   In Genesis 1: 9- 14, the Bible states that God created the Earth on the third day.
     a.   How can you have a first and second day without an Earth turning on its own axis? The author of the Bible really did not know that you need a Sun shining on a rotating Earth to produce a “Day.”
     b.   If God made the Earth on the Third day and the Sun and Stars on the fourth day, the Bible is again in contradiction to what science today knows. The Sun existed long before the Earth and not vice versa.
Quote from: Zakir Naik
4.   When God made the Sun and Moon on the fourth day (Gen 1: 14 - 17), He called the Sun a “Greater light” and the Moon a “Lesser light” and placed them in the firmament to rule over day and night.
     a.   The Author of the Bible does not know that the Moon only reflects the light of the Sun, but thinks that the Moon possesses its own source of light.
     b.   Dr. Naik then gave an elaborate explanation on the scientific description on the differences between the light of the Sun and Moon from the Quran. He claims that the Quran knows that the Moon is a reflector of light from the Sun. He gave different meanings on the Arabic words used in the Quran in support to his theory.
     c.   To Dr. Naik, this was one of the best examples in the Bible, on its deficient scientific descriptions, and one of the greatest scientific descriptions contained in the Quran!
 

I must say that I found many arguments exactly as the above made by Atheist writers and websites, but the first person to have composed this accusation against the Biblical description of Genesis, was Maurice Buchaille in his book, the Bible, The Quran in relation to Science where he glorified the Quran and destroyed the Bible as "handbooks of scientific descriptions".

Well, I will over the next few weeks do the following.
       1. We will see what the Bible says about the origins of the Universe.
       2. Then we will look at what Science says.
and we will conclude with what we found.

I hope you all agree that DR. Naik's summary is a great reflection of what one may find in error with the Bible.


Evolution, the religion whereby one believes your children more human, and your parents more ape, than you!

The Human Mind, if it has nothing to do with Evolution...What an incredible entity...
If it does, what a waste!

Atheism, what a wonderful religion, where one believe to believe is erroneous.

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I think it is a fact if I say that Atheists do not think that the Creation story in Genesis and Science can be reconciled.

The creation stories of genesis cannot be reconciled with each other, much less with science.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Give it time...
Evolution, the religion whereby one believes your children more human, and your parents more ape, than you!

The Human Mind, if it has nothing to do with Evolution...What an incredible entity...
If it does, what a waste!

Atheism, what a wonderful religion, where one believe to believe is erroneous.

Online trdsf

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Give it time...
Biblical stories have had something along the lines of 2000 to 2500 years already.  How much time do you expect?

Simply put, this is an effort to crowbar a modern understanding of science onto a nomadic myth structure.  You can only make the claim that the book is scientifically accurate if it points the way to scientific understanding before the discovery is made, not by reinterpreting the words to mean what you want them to mean post hoc.

And of course, since interpretation manipulation is being expressly allowed here, you're also legitimizing the idea that the ancient Greeks predicted being able to combine genes between different species since they wrote about blended creatures like centaurs, mermaids, chimeras, etc.

Last of all, it ignored genuine predictions clearly made before the relevant discoveries that proved true: Arthur C. Clarke quite clearly predicted the World Wide Web in 1962 in the book Man in Space, although of course he didn't call it exactly that—as I recall, he phrased it something like "dialing up the front page of a newspaper from Sao Paolo onto your television screen", which is a much better metaphor for the Web than anything Dr Naik twisted out of the Quran or the Bible to describe the creation of the universe.

Whither the First Church of Arthur, then?

You cannot have one without the other.  If you want to claim scientific "revelation" from the Bible or Quran, you have to accept it from every other source as well, and therefore it's useless as any sort of divine evidence.  If you want to dismiss all the other sources, the Bible and Quran can be dismissed for the exact same reasons.  And if you want to exempt the Bible and Quran, that's either cherrypicking or special pleading, take your choice.
Sir Terry Pratchett, on being told about the theory that the universe is a computer simulation: "If we all get out and in again, would it start to work properly this time?"

Why do they come here and lie right off the bat?
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Well, if God created the universe then I guess cosmologists are just wasting their time, huh?
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I'm waiting for Trump to say: "We could easily stop all the wildfires from happening just by removing all the oxygen from the atmosphere."

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Why do they come here and lie right off the bat?
Presumably it makes them feel validated.
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I'm waiting for Trump to say: "We could easily stop all the wildfires from happening just by removing all the oxygen from the atmosphere."

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Presumably it makes them feel validated.
I'd violate 'em.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Whenever these folks visit us I always get a profound sense of deja vu...
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I'm waiting for Trump to say: "We could easily stop all the wildfires from happening just by removing all the oxygen from the atmosphere."

Offline pr126

Zakir Naik is a Joke

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"Propaganda works best when those who are being manipulated are confident they are acting on their free will."
 - Joseph Goebbels

Apparently this Zakir Naik is a master debater...
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I'm waiting for Trump to say: "We could easily stop all the wildfires from happening just by removing all the oxygen from the atmosphere."

Offline Baruch

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Well, if God created the universe then I guess cosmologists are just wasting their time, huh?

Feminists ... they study the universe using cosmetology ;-)
שלום

Offline Baruch

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Whenever these folks visit us I always get a profound sense of deja vu...

Wash your mouth out!  That is cultural appropriation!
שלום

I like washing my mouth - with beer!
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I'm waiting for Trump to say: "We could easily stop all the wildfires from happening just by removing all the oxygen from the atmosphere."

Offline Baruch

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I like washing my mouth - with beer!

Not the right quaf ... try a dry Bordeaux instead, you Anglophone you!
שלום

 

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