Author Topic: We're screwed: Anthony Kennedy retiring.  (Read 1883 times)

Online Shiranu

Re: We're screwed: Anthony Kennedy retiring.
« Reply #75 on: June 29, 2018, 10:31:41 PM »
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Stop flipping my words around.

Dude, I am directly quoting something you told me in bolded quotes, which means besides actively copying and pasting the article itself you went out of your way to highlight that it says we are a democracy. I'm sorry, but you cant give me this bullshit that I am somehow twisting your words when you put a conscious effort into making them clear.

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In no way is it just a democracy.

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The United States is a federal republic and a constitutional representative democracy.

I have never said it is just a democracy; I have said it is a democracy and a republic time, and time, and time again, because republicanism is a branch of democracy. You accuse me of twisting your words when that, and personal attacks, are the sole two things you have done this entire thread.

The definition of a republic is such...

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a state in which supreme power is held by the people and their elected representatives, and which has an elected or nominated president rather than a monarch.

Such a government is impossible without having a democracy. It is literally logistically impossible to be anything other than, at least partially, a  democracy as a functioning republic.

Here is the definition of a democracy...

Quote
In a direct democracy, the citizens as a whole form a governing body, and vote directly on each issue, e.g. on the passage of a particular tax law. In a representative democracy the citizens elect representatives from among themselves. These representative meet to form a governing body, such as a legislature. In a constitutional democracy the powers of the majority are exercised within the fremework of a representative democracy, but the constitution limits the majority and protects the minority, usually through the enjoyment by all of certain individual rights, e.g. freedom of speech, or freedom of association.[1][2]

The United States literally fits all three quotas; we have direct democracy (propositions) representative democracy (the Executive and Legislative branches) and constitutional democracy (i.e. the Constitution).

Like, I am enjoying arguing this, but jesus christ dude, just admit you are fucking wrong. There is no shame in that.

Offline Draconic Aiur

Re: We're screwed: Anthony Kennedy retiring.
« Reply #76 on: June 29, 2018, 10:38:19 PM »
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Dude, I am directly quoting something you told me in bolded quotes, which means besides actively copying and pasting the article itself you went out of your way to highlight that it says we are a democracy. I'm sorry, but you cant give me this bullshit that I am somehow twisting your words when you put a conscious effort into making them clear.

I have never said it is just a democracy; I have said it is a democracy and a republic time, and time, and time again, because republicanism is a branch of democracy. You accuse me of twisting your words when that, and personal attacks, are the sole two things you have done this entire thread.

The definition of a republic is such...

Such a government is impossible without having a democracy. It is literally logistically impossible to be anything other than, at least partially, a  democracy as a functioning republic.

Here is the definition of a democracy...

The United States literally fits all three quotas; we have direct democracy (propositions) representative democracy (the Executive and Legislative branches) and constitutional democracy (i.e. the Constitution).

Like, I am enjoying arguing this, but jesus christ dude, just admit you are fucking wrong. There is no shame in that.

We are a republic. End of discussion.

Online Shiranu

Re: We're screwed: Anthony Kennedy retiring.
« Reply #77 on: June 29, 2018, 10:41:20 PM »
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We are a republic. End of discussion.

I agree we are a republic, and am perfectly happy ending the "discussion" there. It's been a pleasure.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2018, 10:43:22 PM by Shiranu »

Re: We're screwed: Anthony Kennedy retiring.
« Reply #78 on: June 29, 2018, 11:56:48 PM »
Why are we arguing semantics? Does it really even matter what we call it?
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville

Offline Hydra009

Re: We're screwed: Anthony Kennedy retiring.
« Reply #79 on: June 29, 2018, 11:59:40 PM »
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Why are we arguing semantics? Does it really even matter what we call it?
I dunno, I kinda like it when words mean things, but yeah, it's obvious there's no progress being made so the smart move is to drop it.

Offline trdsf

Re: We're screwed: Anthony Kennedy retiring.
« Reply #80 on: July 01, 2018, 01:18:31 PM »
Is there a point to arguing whether we're a republic or a democratic republic when the Orange Disaster Area is busy trying to turn us into a dictatorship complete with a cult of personality, and is very likely to leave us with a Supreme Court that's not merely right-wing but genuinely reactionary?

Methinks we've strayed from the original post.
Sir Terry Pratchett, on being told about the theory that the universe is a computer simulation: "If we all get out and in again, would it start to work properly this time?"

Re: We're screwed: Anthony Kennedy retiring.
« Reply #81 on: July 01, 2018, 05:54:19 PM »
Just think of the opportunity Trump has: the first criminal in history able to nominate the judges who will decide his case. How can he lose?
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Offline Baruch

Re: We're screwed: Anthony Kennedy retiring.
« Reply #82 on: July 01, 2018, 06:22:59 PM »
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Just think of the opportunity Trump has: the first criminal in history able to nominate the judges who will decide his case. How can he lose?

All politicians are criminals ... demagoguery should be against the law.
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Online Hijiri Byakuren

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Re: We're screwed: Anthony Kennedy retiring.
« Reply #83 on: July 01, 2018, 11:16:23 PM »
Well it looks like at least two Republican senators are going to oppose any candidate willing to overturn Roe v Wade, so it hasn't all gone against us.
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Offline Jason Harvestdancer

Re: We're screwed: Anthony Kennedy retiring.
« Reply #84 on: July 01, 2018, 11:49:27 PM »
If, perchance, the Republicans hold the senate after then 2018 elections, or worse increase their numbers, then all of the gnashing of teeth about waiting until after the election will have been moot.

When people say Trump is chipping away at our democratic republican institutions, I wonder if they were asleep for the last 40 years prior to Trump.
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Online Cavebear

Re: We're screwed: Anthony Kennedy retiring.
« Reply #85 on: July 02, 2018, 12:06:02 AM »
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Because they are mutually exclusive.
Theocracy does not allow freedom of speech, freedom of conscience



Yes, and that is one of many reasons I think very little of Islam.  But also why I think little of all other theisms...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: We're screwed: Anthony Kennedy retiring.
« Reply #86 on: July 02, 2018, 07:16:30 AM »
Ah, but Democratism and Republicanism (earlier) were your theologies.
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Re: We're screwed: Anthony Kennedy retiring.
« Reply #87 on: July 02, 2018, 01:15:07 PM »
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Well it looks like at least two Republican senators are going to oppose any candidate willing to overturn Roe v Wade, so it hasn't all gone against us.
Any candidate only has to lie and say they won't overturn it, that they believe in stare decisis, that Roe v Wade is settled law, then they'll be confirmed and once they're on the bench they can do whatever they want and no one can do a thing about it.
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"I've actually kept more promises than I've made, when did you ever hear that from a politician?"
Donald J. Trump

Offline Baruch

Re: We're screwed: Anthony Kennedy retiring.
« Reply #88 on: July 02, 2018, 06:25:36 PM »
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Any candidate only has to lie and say they won't overturn it, that they believe in stare decisis, that Roe v Wade is settled law, then they'll be confirmed and once they're on the bench they can do whatever they want and no one can do a thing about it.

Except where judged stand for election periodically.  The Founding Fathers were mostly lawyers, they protected their own.
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Re: We're screwed: Anthony Kennedy retiring.
« Reply #89 on: July 02, 2018, 07:00:11 PM »
But SCOTUS judges never stand for re-election. They're in for life, or until they retire. Can they ever be impeached?
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"I've actually kept more promises than I've made, when did you ever hear that from a politician?"
Donald J. Trump

 

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