We're screwed: Anthony Kennedy retiring.

[Cavebear]

You can't argue with stupid it seems.

And stupid often multiplies.

And indeed it does.  Actually there seem to be 3 groups of people posting here.  People I generally agree with, people I don't generally agree with, and people I often don't understand. 

That doesn't mean I agree or disagree with the people in the third category, just that I never quite get what they are saying.  You are in that 3rd category.  I'm full willing to say that the failure to understand is much on my side, but I mostly don't understand what you are getting at most of the time. 

No offence, but no connection either.  LOL!

[pr126]

Islamic Republic of Iran.

Democratic? Or a theocracy?

[Draconic Aiur]

I pay little attention to him/her...  I seldom find any sense there.

Snse? Shiranu is saying a republic is a democracy. Then denying it and then saying a republic is a form of democracy.


It's wrong because a republic is a representative government. if it were a democracy the people would have ultimate power which they don't in a republic. Also America is far from democracy as of now.

http://capitalismmagazine.com/2003/01/republic-democracy-whats-the-difference/

What is a republic? What is a democracy? And why am I so angered that people use the words interchangeably? I’ll answer the last question first. It is illogical to use two words that mean two different things to mean the same thing. This would be like me using the words orange and apple to mean the same physical object. I would be derided as an idiot and rightly so. This situation is the same in principle to the republic/democracy problem, but the importance of the orange and apple comparison is infinitely smaller.

A republic is a government in which a restricted group of citizens form a political unit, usually under the auspice of a charter, which directs them to elect representatives who will govern the state. Republics, by their very nature, tend to be free polities, not because they are elected by the citizens of the polity, but because they are bound by charters, which limit the responsibilities and powers of the state. The fact that people vote for representatives has nothing to do with making anything free. The logical consistency and rationality of the charter, as well as the willingness of the people to live by it, is what keeps people free.

A democracy is government by the majority. There is still a restricted group of citizens in a democracy, but this group rules directly and personally runs the state. The group may delegate specific tasks to individuals, such as generalships and governorships, but there is no question that the ruling force in a democracy is not a charter (if there even is a charter), but the vote of the majority. Democracies are free only if the people know what freedom is and are consistent in their application of it. If they don’t know this, or more appropriately, if a majority of the people don’t know this, then a democracy could be just as tyrannical as the worst dictator (see Socrates’ forced suicide by the Athenian democracy.)

As should be plain, there is a giant difference between the two systems of government. One of the main fears at the Constitutional Convention of the United States was that the government they created would be too democratic (causing Alexander Hamilton to suggest a restricted monarchy), because it was quite obvious, then and now, that any majority could vote itself anything it wanted, be it property or executions. That is why it irks me so much when politicians (who have no excuse not knowing what kind of government they serve in) and ignorant people say that this country is a democracy; it does a tremendous disservice to all of the people whose thought went into creating our republic.

[Cavebear]

Snse? Shiranu is saying a republic is a democracy. Then denying it and then saying a republic is a form of democracy.


It's wrong because a republic is a representative government. if it were a democracy the people would have ultimate power which they don't in a republic. Also America is far from democracy as of now.

http://capitalismmagazine.com/2003/01/republic-democracy-whats-the-difference/

A "Democratic Republic" is another way to generally define the US.  As I said, we have elements of several forms throughout the government.  No definition is pure or completely correct.  And I spent 4 years in college trying to understand that.  Any definition you apply is wrong in some examples.  And many are right in others.  But none seem to be right everywhere in the US.

[Draconic Aiur]

A "Democratic Republic" is another way to generally define the US.  As I said, we have elements of several forms throughout the government.  No definition is pure or completely correct.  And I spent 4 years in college trying to understand that.  Any definition you apply is wrong in some examples.  And many are right in others.  But none seem to be right everywhere in the US.

Bullcrap.

We are a Constitutional Federal Republic. That's what the founders created, and that's what it is in the present. Why are you arguing it's democratic when it isn't? It may have similarities to a democracy, but it isn't the same as a democratic government. Also it isn't a sub category of a democracy.

[Cavebear]

Bullcrap.

We are a Constitutional Federal Republic. That's what the founders created, and that's what it is in the present. Why are you arguing it's democratic when it isn't? It may have similarities to a democracy, but it isn't the same as a democratic government. Also it isn't a sub category of a democracy.

Well, you sure are full of vinegar, huh?  OK, at some levels, there is a real democracy.  Local elections for example are often (but not always) strictly non-party and totally voter determined.  At other contests, party affiliations are not defined, but advertised.  At other levels, it becomes more direct.  Representatives and Senators are almost always direct-votes. 

You are probably thinking of Presidential elections and I agree that the Electoral College is a holdback from when States were supreme and choose people to choose (in turn) a President.  And I agree that is stupid and should be abolished.

AND I agree that electing Representatives and Senators is not a DIRECT democracy.  But try getting 250 million adults to vote on every law is both idiotic and impossible.  This isn't Athens...

[Baruch]

Islamic Republic of Iran.

Democratic? Or a theocracy?

Good example of an autocratic republic, though not a dictatorship.  N Korea is a funny crossover between republic dictatorship and autocratic monarchy.

[Baruch]

Well, you sure are full of vinegar, huh?  OK, at some levels, there is a real democracy.  Local elections for example are often (but not always) strictly non-party and totally voter determined.  At other contests, party affiliations are not defined, but advertised.  At other levels, it becomes more direct.  Representatives and Senators are almost always direct-votes. 

You are probably thinking of Presidential elections and I agree that the Electoral College is a holdback from when States were supreme and choose people to choose (in turn) a President.  And I agree that is stupid and should be abolished.

AND I agree that electing Representatives and Senators is not a DIRECT democracy.  But try getting 250 million adults to vote on every law is both idiotic and impossible.  This isn't Athens...

People have proposed, per Internet and blockchain, to do direct voting on issues.

[Baruch]

You can't argue with stupid it seems.

And stupid often multiplies.

Confused, not stupid.

[Shiranu]

Islamic Republic of Iran.

Democratic? Or a theocracy?

[pr126]

Because they are mutually exclusive.
Theocracy does not allow freedom of speech, freedom of conscience

[Shiranu]

Because they are mutually exclusive.
Theocracy does not allow freedom of speech, freedom of conscience

I would agree that Iran is ultimately a theocracy before anything else, but certain aspects of it are run in the manner of a republic... so it is both. Until the theocracy starts overriding everything the people ask for representation in, it is both. And within their constitution there are aspects that are republican in nature (just the fact they have a constitution indicates that Iran has the framework for a republican government).

Also; you do realise that a name does not something make, right? Like, I could name myself, "Super Daddy McStrong Face, the 8 Foot Giant" but that wouldn't make it so.

[pr126]

[Blackleaf]

The USA is a Republic, not a democracy

Actually, it's a democratic republic. It has qualities of both.

[Blackleaf]

Because they are mutually exclusive.
Theocracy does not allow freedom of speech, freedom of conscience

No, they're not. Theocracies are governments where one religion holds all the power. A Republic means that people get to choose their leaders. England used to be a theocratic monarchy. The difference is the structure of the government.