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Started by Minimalist, December 14, 2018, 12:04:31 PM

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Baruch

Quote from: _Xenu_ on December 26, 2018, 05:56:52 PM
Ok, call me strange, and I will probably regret this, but what do either the Vulcan's or the Cardassians have to do with this?

That is the point of the OP?  A subculture of humanity doesn't like X.

Vulcan - logic is everything, emotions are verboten
Cardassians - accounting is everything, if it isn't a number, it doesn't count

So yes, if you are a hammer, then everything is a nail.  People adopt some extreme corner of personality spectrum (this is what psychopathy is) and make it their go-to.  Completely unbalanced ... partisan even.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Cavebear

Quote from: Minimalist on December 26, 2018, 06:49:45 PM
McCain was a warmonger.  He never saw an international issue that he didn't think we should drop bombs on.

I think you might be confusing his national security and defense concerns with aggressive war.  McCain once said "War is wretched beyond description, and only a fool or a fraud could sentimentalize its cruel reality".  That doesn't sound like someone who thought bombs were the best solution to all conflicts.

Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Baruch

Quote from: Cavebear on December 29, 2018, 12:57:04 AM
I think you might be confusing his national security and defense concerns with aggressive war.  McCain once said "War is wretched beyond description, and only a fool or a fraud could sentimentalize its cruel reality".  That doesn't sound like someone who thought bombs were the best solution to all conflicts.

America has been a screaming aggressor from the beginning (depending on which part of the world conquest front we put into play).
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Cavebear

Quote from: Baruch on December 29, 2018, 01:00:15 AM
America has been a screaming aggressor from the beginning (depending on which part of the world conquest front we put into play).

Right.  Fought to be a freed British colony, fought a 2nd war to STAY free.  Stayed out of European warfare for a fully century, helped the Brits and French in 1918 when there was no real threat to us, and the same in WWII in Europe.

And let's consider WWII.  We were attacked by the Japanese.  And if that had been our only concern, we woud have crushed them in just a couple years. 

But Britain and France called for help.  We helped.  We divided our strength across 2 oceans.  That made it harder to fight the Japanese, but we helped in Europe. 

We broke the German codes; we provided soldiers, research and equipment, etc.   We did everything an ally could ask.  And we were't in any real danger ourselves from Germany.  We did it because it seemed "right". 

So you want to criticize us, Baruch?  Screw you...  Sit in the world of self-hate you live in, despising everything around you, even those who try to help.  Stew in your own juices...


Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

GSOgymrat

Quote from: Unbeliever on December 26, 2018, 05:34:19 PM
I don't know if this is of much interest, I haven't been able to finish reading it yet. I already see things I don't agree with, like atheists having a faith position, a religion. I'm curious to see what y'all think of it.



America’s New Religions

If religion is just a search for meaning then I understand his point but religion is more than that. I agree with Baruch that Andrew Sullivan uses nostalgia as a touchstone and nostalgia is an illusion. Sullivan is constantly trying to make sense of life, he looks to Christianity for answers and he loves politics so it makes sense he tries to bring all these things together. I empathize with Sullivan, I can agree with some of his points but I don't find this analysis very useful.

Cavebear

Quote from: GSOgymrat on December 29, 2018, 02:13:22 AM
If religion is just a search for meaning then I understand his point but religion is more than that. I agree with Baruch that Andrew Sullivan uses nostalgia as a touchstone and nostalgia is an illusion. Sullivan is constantly trying to make sense of life, he looks to Christianity for answers and he loves politics so it makes sense he tries to bring all these things together. I empathize with Sullivan, I can agree with some of his points but I don't find this analysis very useful.

OK, a quick summary.  You can be Nazi and atheist.  You can be Communist and atheist.  You can be Capitalist and atheist.  You can be a NRA nut and theist.  You can ve a birth-control or opponent and be atheist. 

This stuff of assuming that we atheists are "anything in particular" is just a bunch of nonsense and I'm tired of it.  I'm an atheist and I happen to be pretty much slightly left of democracy-center with a view toward future tendencies for general social education, general social support for health care, and protecting people in their old age.

But that's not what makes me an atheist.  I could the be total opposite of all that and still be an atheist.  I'm an atheist because the concept of a deity running the universe just doesn't make any sense to me and I really don't care what anyone else says about that!

I'm an atheist because the concept of a deity is stupid.  OK?

Now can we just get on with discussions about the real world?

Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Baruch

#21
Quote from: Cavebear on December 29, 2018, 01:36:25 AM
Right.  Fought to be a freed British colony, fought a 2nd war to STAY free.  Stayed out of European warfare for a fully century, helped the Brits and French in 1918 when there was no real threat to us, and the same in WWII in Europe.

And let's consider WWII.  We were attacked by the Japanese.  And if that had been our only concern, we woud have crushed them in just a couple years. 

But Britain and France called for help.  We helped.  We divided our strength across 2 oceans.  That made it harder to fight the Japanese, but we helped in Europe. 

We broke the German codes; we provided soldiers, research and equipment, etc.   We did everything an ally could ask.  And we were't in any real danger ourselves from Germany.  We did it because it seemed "right". 

So you want to criticize us, Baruch?  Screw you...  Sit in the world of self-hate you live in, despising everything around you, even those who try to help.  Stew in your own juices...

0. kill British (twice) = we won't share with them or let them boss us around
1. kill Native Americans = we want their shit
2. kill Mexicans = we want their shit
3. kill each other (takes two aggressors) = can't have two serial killers in the same house, unless one is boss over the other
4. kill Spaniards = we want their shit
5. kill Filipinos = we don't want them to be free, just slaves
6. kill Cubans = we don't want them to be free, just slaves
7. kill Latin Americans = we don't want them to be free, just slaves
8. kill Germans = came in at the 9th inning, gave a good drunk punch, and took all the credit
9. kill a lot more people over the last 100 years = more of the same

American pacifism at its fines ;-).  I don't disapprove, I just can't help but laugh at people's jingo delusions.  I might as well claim that on the basis of my sex and skin color and citizenship ... that I can do no wrong.  Shiranu is the monk wanna-be, a puritan, who wants pacifism enforced by what?  Not my POV.

This has nothing to do with particular BS rationalizations, at the time, or after the fact, of how US = good guys.  I approve of violence.  This one is for you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCA6uxQE-bw

General Patton was good at BS (he was in charge of Army training).  He even thought he could BS Eisenhower.  A successful general has to control narrative ... among other things.  Speaking of BS, in this reconstructed scene from multiple quotes on multiple occasions, on this occasion he had 3 stars, not 4.  This movie was put out to justify the Vietnam War, just like Green Berets with John Wayne.

But you have to be smart if you get into a fight, you have to know in advance that you have good odds of winning, and then carry that out to the end.  That stopped with the Vietnam War, our first war of choice ... and as it continues in Syria (unless we can support Trump to pull out).

http://www.airforcemag.com/Features/Pages/2018/February%202018/US-Strikes-Syrian-Pro-Regime-After-Attack-on-US-Forces-Allied-Fighters.aspx

The target was the Russian equivalent of Blackwater ... we killed 200 of Putin's buddies.  This was in retaliation for the US and British special forces slaughtered by the Syrians not long before, when they were caught in a collapsing terrorist support situation.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Cavebear

Quote from: Minimalist on December 14, 2018, 12:04:31 PM
https://www.newsweek.com/2018/12/21/evangelicals-republicans-trump-millenials-1255745.html

The sooner we toss that ancient piece of shit in the trash and start facing modern realities the better off we'll be.  We just have to hope it won't be too late.

One can only hope those crazies will start to die off soon.  And as I seem to be one of them demographically,  and know those idiots (but not ideologically among them), the faster the better...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Baruch

Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Gregory

#24
Here's what I think of evangelicals:

Fuck the fuckers!
Always fucking up shit -
me, myself and I.