Author Topic: US economic protectionism  (Read 284 times)

US economic protectionism
« on: May 31, 2018, 07:28:47 PM »
The Trump administration proposes to impose 25% tariffs on $50 billion worth of goods from China, and place new limits on Chinese investments in US high-tech industries. It also is imposing steep tariffs on steel and aluminum from three of America's biggest trading partners — Canada, Mexico and the European Union. Trump also has proposed banning luxury cars from Germany. All of the countries involved have said they will retaliate with their own tariffs against American products. A trade war doesn't sound like a good thing but I don't know if this will ultimately be good for Americans-- economics isn't my forte. It seems to me that this Big Government protectionism is the opposite of what most free-market Republicans and Libertarians have advocated. Trump seems to be taking a page from Bernie Sanders.

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Re: US economic protectionism
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2018, 07:31:20 PM »
I really hope trade wars are as easy to win as our Fearless Leader claims they are. If not, the next few years should be...interesting.
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Offline Cavebear

Re: US economic protectionism
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2018, 09:54:25 PM »
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I really hope trade wars are as easy to win as our Fearless Leader claims they are. If not, the next few years should be...interesting.

I bailed out of the stock market a few months ago because I anticipated Trump would start a trade war.  I don't wish a world economic trade war, but I HAVE prepared for it expecting one.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline SGOS

Re: US economic protectionism
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2018, 10:16:43 PM »
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I bailed out of the stock market a few months ago because I anticipated Trump would start a trade war.  I don't wish a world economic trade war, but I HAVE prepared for it expecting one.
That was probably a wise move; Cold blooded, but wise.  I do think some businesses will be helped short term, and some will get hurt short term.  Long term, I think it will hurt the overall economy, and that's when everything is negatively impacted.

Re: US economic protectionism
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2018, 10:27:56 PM »
I think it will help the US a lot, it will allow american manufacturers to compete a little better with the overseas labor costs. It will punish the manufacturers who leave the US to take advantage of lower and less safe working conditions overseas.

And the other countries can whine and complain all they want but ultimately we are their biggest export destination and a huge chunk of the money they make so while they dont like it they will have to just deal with it or go out of business.

Online Sal1981

Re: US economic protectionism
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2018, 10:35:20 PM »
I have no idea.

I thought protectionism was a strictly Democratic notion in the U.S.
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool" --- Richard P. Feynman

Offline Cavebear

Re: US economic protectionism
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2018, 11:29:53 PM »
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I think it will help the US a lot, it will allow american manufacturers to compete a little better with the overseas labor costs. It will punish the manufacturers who leave the US to take advantage of lower and less safe working conditions overseas.

And the other countries can whine and complain all they want but ultimately we are their biggest export destination and a huge chunk of the money they make so while they dont like it they will have to just deal with it or go out of business.

A quick check through memory AND most economic sites suggests that trade wars never actually benefit anyone other than a few speculators with inside information. 
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: US economic protectionism
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2018, 04:33:22 AM »
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The Trump administration proposes to impose 25% tariffs on $50 billion worth of goods from China, and place new limits on Chinese investments in US high-tech industries. It also is imposing steep tariffs on steel and aluminum from three of America's biggest trading partners — Canada, Mexico and the European Union. Trump also has proposed banning luxury cars from Germany. All of the countries involved have said they will retaliate with their own tariffs against American products. A trade war doesn't sound like a good thing but I don't know if this will ultimately be good for Americans-- economics isn't my forte. It seems to me that this Big Government protectionism is the opposite of what most free-market Republicans and Libertarians have advocated. Trump seems to be taking a page from Bernie Sanders.

Thoughts?

In general, economics/trade are too important for the government not to be involved.  And that always brings in partisanship too.  There is no such thing as free trade ... originally it meant in the 19th century ... whatever benefits the British Empire.  The US is a continuation of the British Empire by other means.  So it isn't value free.  The problem is, a universal bureaucracy that micromanages all trade, into and out of a country for example, is impractical.  It is too inflexible, slow, and partisan.  This is why a private sector is necessary in the first place.  Imagine the opposite ... nothing is exported or imported without the personal signature of the President (as dictator).  Very little trade would occur, and probably little of what would occur would be irrational.  Stalinist.  The post-Stalinists tried to free things up, but they still strangled their own economy with paperwork and ideology.

And Trump is doing a random walk thru political-economics.  This is stirring things up.

Now do I favor private trade?  Do I favor international trade?  Usually yes.

Benefit insiders?  Yes, of course.  Normal economic asymmetrical information is what it is all about, even if you have no trade war, but trade peace.  In war or peace, never give the suckers an even chance.  The point is winning at all costs (and make someone else pay those costs).
« Last Edit: June 01, 2018, 04:37:38 AM by Baruch »
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Offline Baruch

Re: US economic protectionism
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2018, 04:34:05 AM »
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I bailed out of the stock market a few months ago because I anticipated Trump would start a trade war.  I don't wish a world economic trade war, but I HAVE prepared for it expecting one.

You moved all your money from one basket to another?  To bonds?  Bwahaha.
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Offline Baruch

Re: US economic protectionism
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2018, 04:36:05 AM »
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I think it will help the US a lot, it will allow american manufacturers to compete a little better with the overseas labor costs. It will punish the manufacturers who leave the US to take advantage of lower and less safe working conditions overseas.

And the other countries can whine and complain all they want but ultimately we are their biggest export destination and a huge chunk of the money they make so while they dont like it they will have to just deal with it or go out of business.

Given multinational corporations (even during WW II) ... nations are obsolete.  Corporations trump politics, and multinational corporations rule the planet.  So really, the nationalist meme is a distraction.  Some multinational creatures are benefited, others are hurt.  Local creatures are hurt, everywhere .. but that is the whole Globalist agenda.  Agenda 21.
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Offline Shiranu

Re: US economic protectionism
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2018, 04:56:04 AM »
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A quick check through memory AND most economic sites suggests that trade wars never actually benefit anyone other than a few speculators with inside information. 

This. The idea of intentionally hurting the global economy, or holding it hostage, for your own benefit in 2018 is absolutely ridiculous in my opinion and shows a glaring lack of any economic understanding. The economy of the world today is irreversibly intertwined and if one piece falls it only brings everything else down with it.

There is nothing to gain from a trade war unless you are part of the aristocracy and an incredible amount to lose. Not only economically, but diplomatically as well; first, it makes you appear like a poor business partner, and second off the collateral damage is not going to make anyone happy. For example the trade war with China scenario; China imports much of their tech parts from places like South Korea, Vietnam, Thailand, Indonesia as well as being huge partners with Japan and practically every East Asian country. When their export profits take a hit, so does all their neighbours, and they are not going to particularly buy into, "Well, America was right though because they had to look out for Americans! We are okay with that!".

The only real advantage I can see works against us; as other countries want to do less and less business with American companies, foreign companies will take our place at the table. Woo hoo?

Again, no political power or national identity comes out as a winner... only the wealthy whom only allegiance is to the all-mighty dollar.

"I can’t move on, I can’t relax. ’Cause when you're gone... panic attacks." - Elohim

"Letting go means to come to the realization that some people are a part of your history, but not a part of your destiny" - Steve Maraboli

Offline Cavebear

Re: US economic protectionism
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2018, 05:02:18 AM »
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This. The idea of intentionally hurting the global economy, or holding it hostage, for your own benefit in 2018 is absolutely ridiculous in my opinion and shows a glaring lack of any economic understanding. The economy of the world today is irreversibly intertwined and if one piece falls it only brings everything else down with it.

There is nothing to gain from a trade war unless you are part of the aristocracy and an incredible amount to lose. Not only economically, but diplomatically as well; first, it makes you appear like a poor business partner, and second off the collateral damage is not going to make anyone happy. For example the trade war with China scenario; China imports much of their tech parts from places like South Korea, Vietnam, Thailand, Indonesia as well as being huge partners with Japan and practically every East Asian country. When their export profits take a hit, so does all their neighbours, and they are not going to particularly buy into, "Well, America was right though because they had to look out for Americans! We are okay with that!".

The only real advantage I can see works against us; as other countries want to do less and less business with American companies, foreign companies will take our place at the table. Woo hoo?

Again, no political power or national identity comes out as a winner... only the wealthy whom only allegiance is to the all-mighty dollar.

Um, in case you didn't notice it, I was not in favor of trade wars.  Lash out much without thinking or reading a lot lately?  You should realize "reflexive response" is not the most important part of a reply... 
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: US economic protectionism
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2018, 05:12:58 AM »
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Um, in case you didn't notice it, I was not in favor of trade wars.  Lash out much without thinking or reading a lot lately?  You should realize "reflexive response" is not the most important part of a reply...

Shiranu was agreeing with you.
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Offline SGOS

Re: US economic protectionism
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2018, 07:42:56 AM »
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Um, in case you didn't notice it, I was not in favor of trade wars.  Lash out much without thinking or reading a lot lately?  You should realize "reflexive response" is not the most important part of a reply... 
??? 

Offline Hydra009

Re: US economic protectionism
« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2018, 10:54:36 AM »
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Trump seems to be taking a page from Bernie Sanders.
If he did, he must've stopped at the John to tweet and forgot to restock the toilet paper, because this trade war madness bears little resemblance to anything I remember Sanders advocating.  In particular, I doubt Sanders would've slapped tarrifs on solar panels.

 

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