Author Topic: You cannot define Truth  (Read 3272 times)

Offline Baruch

Re: You cannot define Truth
« Reply #30 on: May 16, 2018, 10:30:23 PM »
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Actually, the irony here is your arrogant assertions.  I don't know of any atheists who suggest they are the Truth.  Most that I am familiar with insist there is no Truth.  There is a personal truth or a scientific truth, but not Truth.  Truth is a theist concept, and it is ironic that theists cannot envision a universe without their security blanket god(s)--or in your case your silly G_d.

My comment is irony ... not QFT.  And you deny all meaning, other than the trivial personal kind.  So yes for you, there can be no overarching truth.
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Offline Baruch

Re: You cannot define Truth
« Reply #31 on: May 16, 2018, 10:31:59 PM »
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This is a projection of one's own perception onto others.  It's similar to the projection of belief onto others.  Neither truth or belief are of the atheist domain.  Assumed truths and beliefs interfere with clarity of vision.  They become things seen that are not really there.  Absence of truths and beliefs clear the way for accurate perception.  It's better to not know than to have incorrect answers.

So damn the hypotheses ... no speed ahead?  You either know perfectly, or not at all?  And perception is universally shown to be inaccurate (say in eye witness crime scenes).  So .. who has clarity of vision .. monkeys?
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Offline Baruch

Re: You cannot define Truth
« Reply #32 on: May 16, 2018, 10:32:38 PM »
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It seems theists have a very hard time saying 'I don't know'.

So do atheists ... unless they are nihilist, then they shut up.
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Re: You cannot define Truth
« Reply #33 on: May 16, 2018, 10:53:29 PM »
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So do atheists ... unless they are nihilist, then they shut up.
Oh----I don't know...............
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline Baruch

Re: You cannot define Truth
« Reply #34 on: May 16, 2018, 11:08:35 PM »
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Oh----I don't know...............

Yes you do.  You know what you had for supper tonight.  So don't go skeptic or nihilist ... that is just fake posturing.

Same with politics, there are plenty of non-skeptical people who know deep down political things (sorry, I don't think any of us do).

And yes, an atheist can be skeptical on one thing ... but totally gullible on all the rest.
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Offline SGOS

Re: You cannot define Truth
« Reply #35 on: May 16, 2018, 11:29:56 PM »
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You either know perfectly, or not at all?
Fallacy of the excluded middle, but if you demand a forced choice, which one are you?

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And perception is universally shown to be inaccurate (say in eye witness crime scenes).
Is this only for everyone else, or do you include yourself?

Re: You cannot define Truth
« Reply #36 on: May 16, 2018, 11:45:40 PM »
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And yes, an atheist can be skeptical on one thing ... but totally gullible on all the rest.
Really??????????????  Never knew that!
                    or...........
my other take---No shit!  A-theist; not-theist.  That's all it means.  Not a theist.  That explains absolutely nothing else about the thoughts of any atheist.  Talk to your G_d--I'm sure he will fill you in.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline Draconic Aiur

Re: You cannot define Truth
« Reply #37 on: May 17, 2018, 12:12:44 AM »
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Fallacy of the excluded middle, but if you demand a forced choice, which one are you?
Is this only for everyone else, or do you include yourself?


Mostly on himself as he deludes himself further

Offline Cavebear

Re: You cannot define Truth
« Reply #38 on: May 17, 2018, 01:17:53 AM »
One of the reasons I both laugh at and ignore philosophers is that they argue about things like "truth".  I just don't see the debate. 

If person "A" shoots and kills person "Z", on camera, with many kinds of evidence, admits to it, has the motive and ability and intent, seen by mutliple witness, etc, isn't that truth?

But to give Baruch something to pin an argument on...  "Who shot Liberty Valance?"  Where is the truth there?  Have fun...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: You cannot define Truth
« Reply #39 on: May 17, 2018, 07:32:40 AM »
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Fallacy of the excluded middle, but if you demand a forced choice, which one are you?
Is this only for everyone else, or do you include yourself?

Did you even listen to the technical presentation?  Based on accepting the law of excluded middle ... paradox is possible even in logic, unless you are very careful.  This has been known, and struggled with, for over 100 years now.  There are no Vulcans.  Logic is like Norman the android who was defeated by Kirk.  This is why the Halting problem is real (given that computers are based on the law of excluded middle).

Actual logic is simple formalism ... you can use T or F, but equally 1 or 0, or Fred or Ethel.  Logic is about process, not about truth.  Its variables have no connection to anything else, necessarily.  We choose to use logic in math, science ... we make that connection.  So it should come as no surprise that in Logic, you can't define Truth.  So while the presentation (I didn't include all of it) is technical, it's conclusion is pretty obvious on general grounds.  Since truth is defined outside of logic, it must be irrational ;-)
« Last Edit: May 17, 2018, 07:36:47 AM by Baruch »
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Offline Baruch

Re: You cannot define Truth
« Reply #40 on: May 17, 2018, 07:34:39 AM »
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Mostly on himself as he deludes himself further

This OP isn't about religion or politics.  Yes as a human, I am 100% monkey shit.  Same as the rest of you.  Take that Cheeta! (throws poo).
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Offline Baruch

Re: You cannot define Truth
« Reply #41 on: May 17, 2018, 07:35:24 AM »
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One of the reasons I both laugh at and ignore philosophers is that they argue about things like "truth".  I just don't see the debate. 

If person "A" shoots and kills person "Z", on camera, with many kinds of evidence, admits to it, has the motive and ability and intent, seen by mutliple witness, etc, isn't that truth?

But to give Baruch something to pin an argument on...  "Who shot Liberty Valance?"  Where is the truth there?  Have fun...

Rashomon ... did it.
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Offline SGOS

Re: You cannot define Truth
« Reply #42 on: May 17, 2018, 08:34:04 AM »
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Did you even listen to the technical presentation? 
No, I seldom watch those Utube diatribes.  They are usually too long and uninteresting.  I expect the poster to put his own case forward.

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Based on accepting the law of excluded middle ...   
The excluded middle is a fallacy, not a recognized source of logical verification.

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Logic is about process, not about truth.  Its variables have no connection to anything else, necessarily.  We choose to use logic in math, science ... we make that connection.  So it should come as no surprise that in Logic, you can't define Truth.  So while the presentation (I didn't include all of it) is technical, it's conclusion is pretty obvious on general grounds.
To paraphrase Mike CI:  "No shit, Sherlock."

Offline Baruch

Re: You cannot define Truth
« Reply #43 on: May 17, 2018, 12:58:32 PM »
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No, I seldom watch those Utube diatribes.  They are usually too long and uninteresting.  I expect the poster to put his own case forward.
The excluded middle is a fallacy, not a recognized source of logical verification.
To paraphrase Mike CI:  "No shit, Sherlock."

Anything longer than 140 characters, not worth reading?  And a picture is worth a thousand words, and a video is worth a thousand pictures.

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Even outside of logic, there is no agreed to definition of truth.  The logical types of definition rely on primitive notions ...

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You can read the middle part "Details" though it is longer than 140 characters.

If y'all reject all authority, why bring a dictionary to a gun fight?



« Last Edit: May 17, 2018, 01:13:47 PM by Baruch »
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Re: You cannot define Truth
« Reply #44 on: May 17, 2018, 01:36:58 PM »
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Really??????????????  Never knew that!
                    or...........
my other take---No shit!  A-theist; not-theist.  That's all it means.  Not a theist.  That explains absolutely nothing else about the thoughts of any atheist.  Talk to your G_d--I'm sure he will fill you in.
When Baruch prays, he's only talking to himself. ;-)
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"Being dead is like being stupid, it's only painful for others."
Ricky Gervais

 

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