Author Topic: You cannot define Truth  (Read 477 times)

Offline SGOS

Re: You cannot define Truth
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2018, 08:24:04 AM »
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Googled Truth
Bam! Defined Truth!
The word is frequently used, and everyone knows what it means.  You CAN define truth!  In fact, the definition is included in all dictionaries and described much the same way in all.  Perhaps a better thread title might have been, "It's sometimes hard to identify the truth."

The word is defined quite adequately for most uses, but "truth," like so may other words, can be slippery.  There are Christians, and then there are real Christians.  There are facts, and with the Trump administration, we have alternate facts.  And fake news is still news.   

There is truth, even absolute truth, and truths which are beyond us, but truth does exist, except for those who say it doesn't.  But you can't please everyone.

Re: You cannot define Truth
« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2018, 09:14:30 AM »
SGOS nailed it.  But the OP used 'Truth' and not the lower case truth.  'Truth'--the ultimate spiritual knowledge cannot be defined or found.  Why?  Simple, really.  'Truth' is revealed to those who have found a pipeline to god(s).  And since god(s), nor the supernatural, does not exist, Truth does not exist either.  While it may not actually exist, Truth is useful for the snake-oil type religious leaders who wants your money and the ability to tell you what to do and how to act.  It may not exist, but it can be a powerful tool.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline SGOS

Re: You cannot define Truth
« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2018, 10:05:06 AM »
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While it may not actually exist, Truth is useful for the snake-oil type religious leaders who wants your money and the ability to tell you what to do and how to act.  It may not exist, but it can be a powerful tool.
I recall that Jesus Christ once said, "I am the truth and the light."  I don't know if I read it or heard it, but it was very early in my indoctrination.  It was one of those Biblical phrases that perplexed me immediately, and it continued to perplex me even more as I got older.  Finally, late in life, I decided it was a silly thing to waste my time on.  You can take some poetic sounding liberties that add a mysterious lilt to a phrase so that it seems to have been elevated into the spiritual realm.  It doesn't matter if it's a nonsense phrase or if it's grammatically incorrect. 

"I am the truth and the light:"  Every key word in that has a clearly defined purpose or meaning.  Unfortunately, you can string well defined words together in ways that make an entire phrase meaningless, and that seems to be what happened here.  Theologians will jump to the defense and say, "What it really means is bla bla bla, "because theologians see themselves as highly qualified to make sense out of poorly constructed sentences, and can even come up with authoritative explanations from total gibberish.

"I am the gas pump of darkness."  See how you can string useful words together to make nonsense?  If you want to play head games with yourself, you could probably make that sentence mean something, but it wouldn't be important.

Offline Baruch

Re: You cannot define Truth
« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2018, 01:09:40 PM »
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Googled Truth

Bam! Defined Truth!

Red pill or blue pill?  Y'all are on the pill, but not pregnant yet.

People here hate or don't even try to understand any philosophy, but I will occasional post things by people smarter than I am.  The sum of their intellect is Funk & Wagnals.  Sad.  The OP had nothing to do with theology.

Yes, Jesus said "I am the truth" ... he spoke perfect American English.  Bwahaha .. you fools.

John 14:6
λέγει αὐτῷ Ἰησοῦς Ἐγώ εἰμι ἡ ὁδὸς καὶ ἡ ἀλήθεια καὶ ἡ ζωή· οὐδεὶς ἔρχεται πρὸς τὸν Πατέρα εἰ μὴ δι’ ἐμοῦ.

alétheia: truth
Original Word: ἀλήθεια, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: alétheia
Phonetic Spelling: (al-ay'-thi-a)
Short Definition: truth
Definition: truth, but not merely truth as spoken; truth of idea, reality, sincerity, truth in the moral sphere, divine truth revealed to man, straightforwardness.

One could spend a lifetime exegeting this one word.  This dictionary gives some scope of the range of meaning, not found in an English dictionary looking at the usual English quotations (usage).
« Last Edit: May 15, 2018, 01:24:35 PM by Baruch »
שלום

Re: You cannot define Truth
« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2018, 04:18:09 PM »
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I recall that Jesus Christ once said, "I am the truth and the light."  I don't know if I read it or heard it, but it was very early in my indoctrination.  It was one of those Biblical phrases that perplexed me immediately, and it continued to perplex me even more as I got older.  Finally, late in life, I decided it was a silly thing to waste my time on.  You can take some poetic sounding liberties that add a mysterious lilt to a phrase so that it seems to have been elevated into the spiritual realm.  It doesn't matter if it's a nonsense phrase or if it's grammatically incorrect. 

"I am the truth and the light:"  Every key word in that has a clearly defined purpose or meaning.  Unfortunately, you can string well defined words together in ways that make an entire phrase meaningless, and that seems to be what happened here.  Theologians will jump to the defense and say, "What it really means is bla bla bla, "because theologians see themselves as highly qualified to make sense out of poorly constructed sentences, and can even come up with authoritative explanations from total gibberish.

"I am the gas pump of darkness."  See how you can string useful words together to make nonsense?  If you want to play head games with yourself, you could probably make that sentence mean something, but it wouldn't be important.
But nonsense is the stock-and-trade of the guru--easier to make it say what the sheeple want to hear. 
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Online PopeyesPappy

Re: You cannot define Truth
« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2018, 07:29:19 PM »
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Logic prevents one kind of screw up ... inconsistency.  Without empirical evidence to go with it, it is toothless. 

I'll be damned. Baruch said something I wholeheartedly agree with.
Save a life. Adopt a Greyhound.


Offline Baruch

Re: You cannot define Truth
« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2018, 07:36:40 PM »
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But nonsense is the stock-and-trade of the guru--easier to make it say what the sheeple want to hear.

Reject all dictionaries .. embrace the only truth ... silence.  See, it all comes down to a battle of scriptures, in this case dictionaries.  I will take Strong's over Funk & Wagnal.  Given that we are talking about 2000-3000 year old languages.  Y'all should approve of this ...

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« Last Edit: May 15, 2018, 07:40:25 PM by Baruch »
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Offline Baruch

Re: You cannot define Truth
« Reply #22 on: May 15, 2018, 07:37:17 PM »
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I'll be damned. Baruch said something I wholeheartedly agree with.

I have to try many times, but I get there.  People think that logic = Spock.  They need to edumacate themselves more.
שלום

Offline Draconic Aiur

Re: You cannot define Truth
« Reply #23 on: May 15, 2018, 10:22:43 PM »
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The word is frequently used, and everyone knows what it means.  You CAN define truth!  In fact, the definition is included in all dictionaries and described much the same way in all.  Perhaps a better thread title might have been, "It's sometimes hard to identify the truth."

The word is defined quite adequately for most uses, but "truth," like so may other words, can be slippery.  There are Christians, and then there are real Christians.  There are facts, and with the Trump administration, we have alternate facts.  And fake news is still news.   

There is truth, even absolute truth, and truths which are beyond us, but truth does exist, except for those who say it doesn't.  But you can't please everyone.


Truth is universal. Not Lies some dead people made in the past. 1+1=2. 1+1=3 is what some people say, but it logically is x+x=3. That is Truth. This is why we have scientific method because lies cloud everything but the only Truth is logical. So Logical=Truth.

there I just explained it for all the philosophers out there.

Offline Baruch

Re: You cannot define Truth
« Reply #24 on: May 16, 2018, 02:13:42 AM »
Jesus = I am the Truth
Atheist = No, I am the Truth ... and am oblivious to the irony

Some people spend a lifetime in the futile attempt to escape their past.  Of course it is equally bad fearing their future, and trying to escape that.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2018, 02:15:40 AM by Baruch »
שלום

Offline SGOS

Re: You cannot define Truth
« Reply #25 on: May 16, 2018, 03:09:49 AM »
I am the egg man.
I am the walrus.
    -john lennon

Online PopeyesPappy

Re: You cannot define Truth
« Reply #26 on: May 16, 2018, 06:46:47 AM »
Goo goo g' joob
Save a life. Adopt a Greyhound.


Re: You cannot define Truth
« Reply #27 on: May 16, 2018, 08:53:32 AM »
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Jesus = I am the Truth
Atheist = No, I am the Truth ... and am oblivious to the irony

Actually, the irony here is your arrogant assertions.  I don't know of any atheists who suggest they are the Truth.  Most that I am familiar with insist there is no Truth.  There is a personal truth or a scientific truth, but not Truth.  Truth is a theist concept, and it is ironic that theists cannot envision a universe without their security blanket god(s)--or in your case your silly G_d.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline SGOS

Re: You cannot define Truth
« Reply #28 on: May 16, 2018, 09:23:01 AM »
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Actually, the irony here is [that] I don't know of any atheists who suggest they are the Truth.  Most that I am familiar with insist there is no Truth.
This is a projection of one's own perception onto others.  It's similar to the projection of belief onto others.  Neither truth or belief are of the atheist domain.  Assumed truths and beliefs interfere with clarity of vision.  They become things seen that are not really there.  Absence of truths and beliefs clear the way for accurate perception.  It's better to not know than to have incorrect answers.

Re: You cannot define Truth
« Reply #29 on: May 16, 2018, 10:21:36 AM »
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This is a projection of one's own perception onto others.  It's similar to the projection of belief onto others.  Neither truth or belief are of the atheist domain.  Assumed truths and beliefs interfere with clarity of vision.  They become things seen that are not really there.  Absence of truths and beliefs clear the way for accurate perception.  It's better to not know than to have incorrect answers.
It seems theists have a very hard time saying 'I don't know'.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

 

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