Author Topic: Are Christians and Muslims idolaters?  (Read 5453 times)

Re: Are Christians and Muslims idolaters?
« Reply #30 on: May 06, 2018, 02:01:05 PM »
Okay, got ya.  Yeah, I try to make epistemology as a guide and not a passion.  Not excess.  When I was younger and as a working person, I was much more active in pursuit of knowledge.  Now I am much more in pursuit of contentment.  Knowledge collection came from without; contentment is within.  Not concerned with happy---contentment is much more attainable.  The key to contentment is tied to coffee and taking a dump--when both are done early in the morning, contentment is much more easily attained.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Re: Are Christians and Muslims idolaters?
« Reply #31 on: May 07, 2018, 12:26:23 PM »
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I think you misunderstand atheism and agnosticism. Two answers to two different questions.
Atheists and theists can be gnostic and agnostic.
.

Dictionaries are now beginning to blend the terms with gnostic atheist and agnostic theists, etc., so I just KIS and call them all ideologies, including your belief system, whatever it might be.

You put your ideology as supreme and idolize it, which makes you and most people idolaters.

Regards
DL 

Re: Are Christians and Muslims idolaters?
« Reply #32 on: May 07, 2018, 12:29:57 PM »
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I cannot speak for all atheists.  But for me that statement is absurd.  I don't 'idolize' anything (well, maybe the Yankees).  I don't believe in anything.  I base my disbelief in god(s) based on the fact that not one god has made his/her presence known.  Not a single piece of empirical evidence can be shown to prove god(s).  And yes, that lack of evidence is evidence of lack.  I do believe that Donald Duck is alive and well--prove me wrong.   

No can do, but you seem quite attached to your thinking system/ideology, to the point of idolizing it enough to push it here.

That applies to all ideologies I think except the Gnostic Christian ideology that always seeks to raise the bar of whatever we hold as an ideology at present.

Regards
DL

Re: Are Christians and Muslims idolaters?
« Reply #33 on: May 07, 2018, 12:33:16 PM »
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So, lacking belief in a deity is "idolizing" the notion of God's non-existence? So would my lack of belief in Santa Claus be an idolizing of the non-existence of Santa Claus?

This notion seems absurd to me.

Yes to your question if it truly is a part of your ideology.

This might be a good place to put what follows but I hope you read the replies I put above. This is not the easiest idea to sell.

What is idolized is the thinking you hold supreme. If an atheist, you hold your atheism thinking supreme. You are an idolater.

 Break that logic trail if you can.

 This link might drive my point home. Ignore the tail end preaching and think of the definition.

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 Regards
 DL



« Last Edit: May 07, 2018, 12:35:24 PM by Greatest I am »

Re: Are Christians and Muslims idolaters?
« Reply #34 on: May 07, 2018, 12:36:25 PM »
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Wow. There's reaching and then there's complete incoherent nonsense.

Small minds say that. Please read what I have put above.

Regards
DL

Re: Are Christians and Muslims idolaters?
« Reply #35 on: May 07, 2018, 12:38:05 PM »
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I would say ... mono-maniac ... that covers both theism and atheism.  You are so sure of something, that you ignore all contrary evidence.  Of course being a complete skeptic, a nihilist, sucks too.  I would say a nihilist is just another kind of mono-maniac.

Curb your enthusiasm but don't go into a coma.  Be modest in what you think is true or false.  Nothing in excess ... per Delphic Oracle.

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The ancient Greeks would say, that going to extremes incarnates "hubris", which incites to jealousy, the Olympian gods, who arrange your well earned destruction.

Indeed, but I am here to lose arguments and being cock sure is a good way to get firm opposition.

Regards
DL

Re: Are Christians and Muslims idolaters?
« Reply #36 on: May 07, 2018, 12:41:23 PM »
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For some, everything is about epistemology ... what do you know (not believe) and how to you know it.  Not bad in itself, but taken to excess ...

GIA ... yes, all conventional religious people are idolaters.  Not that there is anything wrong with idolatry.  Mysticism or heresy can be its own problem too ... "my ain't I special" ... being all to common.

Gnostic Christians, as perpetual seeking wishing to evolve their beliefs, tend not to fall into "my ain't I special" thinking.

We are never satisfied with our ideology and raise the bar of excellence whenever we thing we have the best. We are never satisfied.

Regards
DL

Re: Are Christians and Muslims idolaters?
« Reply #37 on: May 07, 2018, 12:44:37 PM »
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It's pretty silly to accuse people who don't believe in a god of worshiping a physical object as if it were a god.  Belief in a god is kinda a prerequisite for that.

It is not an object that people idolize. It is their thinking process and ideology that is put above all else.

For the bigger explanation, please read what I have put above so that I do not have to get too repetitious.

Regards
DL




Re: Are Christians and Muslims idolaters?
« Reply #38 on: May 07, 2018, 01:06:22 PM »
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This televangelist says that freedom of religion only applies to Christianity:

And yet, it's the Christians who are being oppressed by us God-forsaken atheists.

Trade ya.

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Regards
DL

Re: Are Christians and Muslims idolaters?
« Reply #39 on: May 07, 2018, 01:10:15 PM »
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Claims made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. That applies to all claims, no matter how much you want your unsupported claim to be true. As they say, pics or it didn't happen.

Hmm.

If your a Yank, you might be thankful that your thinking did not prevail when Paul Revere rode through yelling that the British were coming.

You might be speaking with a British accent. --- Mate.

Regards
DL

Re: Are Christians and Muslims idolaters?
« Reply #40 on: May 07, 2018, 01:13:18 PM »
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How can Christians not understand freedom of religion?  If it was just one Christian, I could write that off.  This has been going on long enough that they should all understand by now how the concept works.  It's not freedom of Christianity.  It's freedom of religion.  But they can't seem to stop thinking they're more special than everyone else.

If Christians and Muslims were interested in freedom of religion for all, Inquisitions and Jihads would not exist.

Regards
DL

Offline trdsf

Re: Are Christians and Muslims idolaters?
« Reply #41 on: May 07, 2018, 01:13:44 PM »
Idolatry by definition means the adoration, veneration and/or worship of some sort of physical representation -- a painting, a statue, that sort of thing.  You're playing this game of using common terms in non-standard ways again.

Anyway, atheists are not and can not be, by mere dint of being atheists, idolators.  Individual atheists may or may not have their own little obsessions, but that's separate and not applicable to atheists as a class.

I aspire to applying rationalism to all things, but that's completely different from fetishizing the Great Goddess Clara Rationalia, Our Lady of Perpetual Comprehension (can you tell I was raised Roman Catholic?).

It's worth pointing out that one's own religion has "holy relics" and "meditation objects" and "icons".  "Idols" are always in someone else's religion.  So the "holy relics" and "meditation objects" and "icons" are all idols too, from outside their religions.
Sir Terry Pratchett, on being told about the theory that the universe is a computer simulation: "If we all get out and in again, would it start to work properly this time?"

Re: Are Christians and Muslims idolaters?
« Reply #42 on: May 07, 2018, 01:18:23 PM »
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How come the majority etc from whatever society you live in, don't realize when they are acting like idiots?

Like religions, it is called organized schizophrenia.

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Or, mob rule, right or wrong.

Regards
DL

Re: Are Christians and Muslims idolaters?
« Reply #43 on: May 07, 2018, 01:24:25 PM »
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Idolatry by definition means the adoration, veneration and/or worship of some sort of physical representation -- a painting, a statue, that sort of thing.  You're playing this game of using common terms in non-standard ways again.

Anyway, atheists are not and can not be, by mere dint of being atheists, idolators.  Individual atheists may or may not have their own little obsessions, but that's separate and not applicable to atheists as a class.

I aspire to applying rationalism to all things, but that's completely different from fetishizing the Great Goddess Clara Rationalia, Our Lady of Perpetual Comprehension (can you tell I was raised Roman Catholic?).

It's worth pointing out that one's own religion has "holy relics" and "meditation objects" and "icons".  "Idols" are always in someone else's religion.  So the "holy relics" and "meditation objects" and "icons" are all idols too, from outside their religions.

Guilty as charged of using the KIS system.

Please see post 33 in particular but do read some of my other replies please.

Physical icons are one thing, but your mental picture of whatever your ideology is also just a representation/icon, in a sense.

Regards
DL

Offline trdsf

Re: Are Christians and Muslims idolaters?
« Reply #44 on: May 07, 2018, 03:42:35 PM »
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Physical icons are one thing, but your mental picture of whatever your ideology is also just a representation/icon, in a sense.
No, it's just not.  And do not tell me how I view myself.  You're not inside my head to know.

My ideology, my philosophy, my outlook are the framework through which I process the world -- and all of which are subject to verification as best as possible against reality.  None of them are concrete-set and protected against change; change is required for growth.

Also, do you have any idea how smug and self-aggrandizing that is to claim 'it affects everyone's ideology but mine' in the post you referenced?  I have to ask, because I genuinely don't think you do.  I'm sorry, but you are not an objective point of reference.
Sir Terry Pratchett, on being told about the theory that the universe is a computer simulation: "If we all get out and in again, would it start to work properly this time?"

 

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