Author Topic: Are Christians and Muslims idolaters?  (Read 4746 times)

Offline Cavebear

Re: Are Christians and Muslims idolaters?
« Reply #135 on: May 19, 2018, 11:23:40 AM »
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I'd be more specific, because "myths" don't always involve gods. You can be an atheist and still believe in ghosts, aliens, healing crystals, flat earth, or any number of myths.

Well, I wouldn't, but I get your point;  atheism shades into rationalism at some point for ME.  I consider the two similar, but not everyone does.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: Are Christians and Muslims idolaters?
« Reply #136 on: May 19, 2018, 11:33:20 AM »
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I've attended a couple of atheist conventions.  I met a guy who was an atheist gun-fanatic.  I met another who thought "atheist" meant "do anything you want to".  Neither was my style, but they WERE atheists.

The only thing atheists have in common is not believing in myths.

"do anything you want to" is a slogan of a church of Satan, a paraphrase of Aleister Crowley

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Re: Are Christians and Muslims idolaters?
« Reply #137 on: May 19, 2018, 01:55:06 PM »
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  I met another who thought "atheist" meant "do anything you want to".
That was the motto of Aleister Crowley, "the wickedest man in the world," who believed that "do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the law."
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“Truth is not what you want it to be; it is what it is, and you must bend to its power or live a lie.”
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Offline Baruch

Re: Are Christians and Muslims idolaters?
« Reply #138 on: May 19, 2018, 01:59:38 PM »
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That was the motto of Aleister Crowley, "the wickedest man in the world," who believed that "do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the law."

He may have been a complete fraud however, using the occult as a cover for MI6 type work.  Which would make him very wicked indeed, given their recent interference (not Russian interference) in the US Presidential election.
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Offline trdsf

Re: Are Christians and Muslims idolaters?
« Reply #139 on: May 19, 2018, 03:53:09 PM »
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That was the motto of Aleister Crowley, "the wickedest man in the world," who believed that "do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the law."
Often forgotten is the second part of that: "Love is the law, love under will."  Which sort of points towards respect of others' rights, but not very clearly.

The Wiccan Rede reinstates the responsibility to others much more definitively: An it harm none, do what thou wilt.
Sir Terry Pratchett, on being told about the theory that the universe is a computer simulation: "If we all get out and in again, would it start to work properly this time?"

Offline Cavebear

Re: Are Christians and Muslims idolaters?
« Reply #140 on: May 19, 2018, 04:54:24 PM »
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Often forgotten is the second part of that: "Love is the law, love under will."  Which sort of points towards respect of others' rights, but not very clearly.

The Wiccan Rede reinstates the responsibility to others much more definitively: An it harm none, do what thou wilt.

Yeah, I have the Coven record for amusement.  I would prefer a more positive agreement than "that it harm no one" though.    We have seen evidence of too much passive  acceptance of events that "harmed".
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline trdsf

Re: Are Christians and Muslims idolaters?
« Reply #141 on: May 19, 2018, 05:27:33 PM »
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Yeah, I have the Coven record for amusement.  I would prefer a more positive agreement than "that it harm no one" though.    We have seen evidence of too much passive acceptance of events that "harmed".
That was one of the things about Wicca I liked when I practiced it: I can't define harm for you.  I can make my best effort, but if I'm wrong, I am responsible to you to make it right.  Unlike Christianity, I can't go into a box and whisper "I sowwy" and pretend that fixes it.

The Rede works alongside another Wiccan principle, the Three-Fold Law: whatever energy a person puts into the world, positive or negative, will be returned to that person three times.  It's akin to the idea of karma -- and not universally held among all Wiccans, though it or something like it is broadly held.  Also, it refers to reward and/or punishment occurring in this world, not in any after- or next life.
Sir Terry Pratchett, on being told about the theory that the universe is a computer simulation: "If we all get out and in again, would it start to work properly this time?"

Offline Cavebear

Re: Are Christians and Muslims idolaters?
« Reply #142 on: May 19, 2018, 05:37:32 PM »
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That was one of the things about Wicca I liked when I practiced it: I can't define harm for you.  I can make my best effort, but if I'm wrong, I am responsible to you to make it right.  Unlike Christianity, I can't go into a box and whisper "I sowwy" and pretend that fixes it.

The Rede works alongside another Wiccan principle, the Three-Fold Law: whatever energy a person puts into the world, positive or negative, will be returned to that person three times.  It's akin to the idea of karma -- and not universally held among all Wiccans, though it or something like it is broadly held.  Also, it refers to reward and/or punishment occurring in this world, not in any after- or next life.

So, you're Wiccan?
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline trdsf

Re: Are Christians and Muslims idolaters?
« Reply #143 on: May 19, 2018, 07:18:59 PM »
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So, you're Wiccan?
I was, from 1984 to around 2004.  And then I finally threw in my lot with evidence and reason after spending a little time trying to justify magic through the observer effect in quantum mechanics and science kept winning over belief.
Sir Terry Pratchett, on being told about the theory that the universe is a computer simulation: "If we all get out and in again, would it start to work properly this time?"

Offline Cavebear

Re: Are Christians and Muslims idolaters?
« Reply #144 on: May 22, 2018, 05:13:14 AM »
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I was, from 1984 to around 2004.  And then I finally threw in my lot with evidence and reason after spending a little time trying to justify magic through the observer effect in quantum mechanics and science kept winning over belief.

Well to the present, LOL!
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: Are Christians and Muslims idolaters?
« Reply #145 on: May 22, 2018, 06:20:59 AM »
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I was, from 1984 to around 2004.  And then I finally threw in my lot with evidence and reason after spending a little time trying to justify magic through the observer effect in quantum mechanics and science kept winning over belief.

If you think you understand quantum mechanics, you don't - Feynman
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Offline trdsf

Re: Are Christians and Muslims idolaters?
« Reply #146 on: May 22, 2018, 01:19:18 PM »
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Well to the present, LOL!
There was a brief flirtation along the way with Discordianism because of quantum randomness...
Sir Terry Pratchett, on being told about the theory that the universe is a computer simulation: "If we all get out and in again, would it start to work properly this time?"

Offline Baruch

Re: Are Christians and Muslims idolaters?
« Reply #147 on: May 22, 2018, 08:17:46 PM »
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There was a brief flirtation along the way with Discordianism because of quantum randomness...

Isn't Acid Rock dischordian, or is that Heavy Metal? ;-)
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Offline Cavebear

Re: Are Christians and Muslims idolaters?
« Reply #148 on: May 25, 2018, 03:42:40 AM »
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There was a brief flirtation along the way with Discordianism because of quantum randomness...

I suspect a rational universe usually makes the most sense.  I don't mean a "THINKING" rational universe, that would imply agency.  Just one with rules...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: Are Christians and Muslims idolaters?
« Reply #149 on: May 25, 2018, 07:25:38 AM »
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I suspect a rational universe usually makes the most sense.  I don't mean a "THINKING" rational universe, that would imply agency.  Just one with rules...

There are rules, but no ruler? ... unless you mean a wooden one from school days.  See, abuse of language, everywhere.  There is recurrence of pattern, that isn't a rule, just a pattern, which inductively (logic) doesn't always work out.  Black swans.  Y'all still don't take David Hume seriously.
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