Author Topic: Are Christians and Muslims idolaters?  (Read 4217 times)

Offline trdsf

Re: Are Christians and Muslims idolaters?
« Reply #120 on: May 14, 2018, 12:15:11 AM »
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I would prefer losing a debate and learning something new as compared to wining  a debate and learning nothing new.

If you wish to win this one and learn nothing, by all means, take the win.
You really don't read for comprehension much, do you?  Or are you conceding that you cannot find a factual flaw in my statement, as requested?

Because as far as I can tell, you're only glancing to see if I've bought into your bullshit yet, and when you see I haven't, you double down on the bullshit.

Are you even capable of answering a direct question?  I asked you to point out any factual flaws in my statement You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login, which you dismissed with non sequitur and doubletalk.  And when asked for your objections, you responded with more non sequitur and doubletalk, and then have the barefaced gall to accuse others of the very conversational crimes you yourself repeat over and over.

I mean, if you're not serious about having an adult conversation, fine, have fun with your faux intellectual wankathon.  No skin off my nose.
Sir Terry Pratchett, on being told about the theory that the universe is a computer simulation: "If we all get out and in again, would it start to work properly this time?"

Re: Are Christians and Muslims idolaters?
« Reply #121 on: May 19, 2018, 07:19:25 AM »
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That they lack belief in a god.

That is an ideological position.

Regards
DL

Re: Are Christians and Muslims idolaters?
« Reply #122 on: May 19, 2018, 07:23:27 AM »
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The reason I use that label is for clarity and honesty.  I don't find any reason to think that a god(s) (or anything supernatural) is real.  I have found no data or reasons to support the 'belief' that god(s) exist.  Atheism is not an ideology for me either, for it is simply a statement that lets others know that I don't think anything supernatural exists.  being atheist does not come with a set of ways to think or what to think.  If I know a person is atheistic then I know they don't think god(s) exist, but that's all.  Cavebear is atheistic but that does not inform me as to any stances he has on any other subject.

i·de·ol·o·gy
noun
1.a system of ideas and ideals

Not thinking something is a part of your thinking system and ideas.

Regards
DL



Re: Are Christians and Muslims idolaters?
« Reply #123 on: May 19, 2018, 07:25:02 AM »
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That seems easy enough.  I label myself an "atheist" because I have no "theist" views".   In ancient Greek, "a" meant "not" (apolitical, agnosticetc),

Without theisms, there would by no atheists.  We didn't create the idea.  Until some damned fool idiot got the first idea of some natural deity, EVERYONE was an atheist, but there was no need for the label as there was no "theism" before then.  Like, are you an  abrogismist"?  Of course not, so long as there re no brogismists.   Only WHEN there are active proponents of "broglism" can there be people who aren't. 

They didn't go around thinking "I'm a abroglimist" before then  It was only when someone said they were a "broglimist" and someone else said "well I don't think I am one" that there were "abroglimists".

Same with atheists and theists.  Atheists didn't start the idea of NOT being theists.  Someone else had the idea of beings "theists" and some other people just weren't.  So they were (after) hot-theists (ie, "atheists").

And, for that reason, thereby hangs the tail of "proof".  Theism was the new idea, and therefore the burden of proof of the idea is on the theists.  As an atheist, I don't have to prove a thing, just as the broglimists would have to give proof t the people who were not broglamists that their new idea was true.

So, prove your "Broglism" idea...  It's not my burden to disprove it.



Does that make sense, or do I need to use shorter words?

No. Just fewer as I did just above.

Regards
DL

Re: Are Christians and Muslims idolaters?
« Reply #124 on: May 19, 2018, 07:25:48 AM »
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"The atheist does not say," There is no God", but he says, "I know not what you mean by God"; the word God is to me a sound conveying no clear or distinct affirmation."
Charles Bradlaugh

The word "God" can mean so many different things that it really means nothing at all.

Indeed.

Regards
DL

Offline Baruch

Re: Are Christians and Muslims idolaters?
« Reply #125 on: May 19, 2018, 07:26:04 AM »
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i·de·ol·o·gy
noun
1.a system of ideas and ideals

Not thinking something is a part of your thinking system and ideas.

Regards
DL

People are closed minded about different things, not the same things.  That is why they argue and fight, not because there is too much open mindedness.  Ideology is a name for being closed minded.

Cavebear seems to have a pristine aboriginal model of humanity, like Rousseau.  I don't agree with Rousseau on many levels.

Originally people had no language, they weren't atheist or theist ... those words didn't exist.  They behaved differently than modern people do, and live in a radically different context.  Early man is almost unimaginable to moderns.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2018, 07:29:12 AM by Baruch »
שלום

Re: Are Christians and Muslims idolaters?
« Reply #126 on: May 19, 2018, 07:27:06 AM »
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It means that the individual who self-labels as an atheist does not find claims that there exists any sort of divine or supernatural power, entity, or authority, in the singular or plural to be convincing.  No more, no less.

It's not an ideology: there are liberal atheists, conservative atheists, socialist atheists, capitalist atheists, monarchist atheists, anarchist atheists, social libertarian atheists, economic libertarian atheists, and apolitical atheists.

It's not a belief system, unless you happen to think that not collecting coins is as much a hobby as collecting coins, and that celibacy is a sex position like missionary, 69, and reverse cowgirl (or boy, as the case may be).

It's the simple statement that the burden of proof for claims of any deity has not been met.  Not that they cannot be met under any circumstances, but that so far they have not been met, and that the individual is until then under no obligation to even tentatively accept the claim.

I mean, it's pretty straightforward.

See the definition above.

Any set of ideas is an ideology.

Regards
DL


Re: Are Christians and Muslims idolaters?
« Reply #127 on: May 19, 2018, 07:28:20 AM »
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People are closed minded about different things, not the same things.  That is why they argue and fight, not because there is too much open mindedness.  Ideology is a name for being closed minded.

It can be, sure as that would it the definition.

Regards
DL


Offline Cavebear

Re: Are Christians and Muslims idolaters?
« Reply #128 on: May 19, 2018, 08:07:45 AM »
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His "interior" must be psychosis.

Or perhaps his "interior" is his "posterior"...  ;)
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline trdsf

Re: Are Christians and Muslims idolaters?
« Reply #129 on: May 19, 2018, 08:11:31 AM »
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Or perhaps his "interior" is his "posterior"...  ;)
Yeah, I'm inclined to a diagnosis of rectocranial inversion m'self.
Sir Terry Pratchett, on being told about the theory that the universe is a computer simulation: "If we all get out and in again, would it start to work properly this time?"

Offline Cavebear

Re: Are Christians and Muslims idolaters?
« Reply #130 on: May 19, 2018, 08:18:26 AM »
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It can be, sure as that would it the definition.

Regards
DL

You probably think that "bald" is a hair color, too.  It often amazes me how some people can wind facts in their minds and get 1+1=3.  I worked in the Federal Government and saw people like that often.  They succeeded well enough (among their own kind).  I'm sure they were in private industry too, but I wasn't there to observe them.  Though, the examples I see coming out of private industry into government riding the coat-tails of the Trump-like critters suggests they are at least the same and probably worse.

Have a happy...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Re: Are Christians and Muslims idolaters?
« Reply #131 on: May 19, 2018, 10:41:38 AM »
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i·de·ol·o·gy
noun
1.a system of ideas and ideals

Not thinking something is a part of your thinking system and ideas.

Regards
DL
Ah, got it.  If I think or don't think, that is an ideology.  That's nice and neat--everyone and everything thing then is an ideology.  And any argument, reasons, facts, assertions, fantasies or simply being alive is an ideology.  That's easy.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Re: Are Christians and Muslims idolaters?
« Reply #132 on: May 19, 2018, 10:49:00 AM »
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i·de·ol·o·gy
noun
1.a system of ideas and ideals

Not thinking something is a part of your thinking system and ideas.

Exactly. And atheism has neither ideas or ideals. We reject the idea of gods. That is all that atheists have in common. It's really not that hard. And no, not thinking something is not an idea. Not collecting trading cards is not a hobby. Off is not a TV channel. Blind is not a favorite color.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2018, 10:52:07 AM by Blackleaf »
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville

Offline Cavebear

Re: Are Christians and Muslims idolaters?
« Reply #133 on: May 19, 2018, 11:07:57 AM »
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Exactly. And atheism has neither ideas or ideals. We reject the idea of gods. That is all that atheists have in common. It's really not that hard. And no, not thinking something is not an idea. Not collecting trading cards is not a hobby. Off is not a TV channel. Blind is not a favorite color.

I've attended a couple of atheist conventions.  I met a guy who was an atheist gun-fanatic.  I met another who thought "atheist" meant "do anything you want to".  Neither was my style, but they WERE atheists.

The only thing atheists have in common is not believing in myths.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Re: Are Christians and Muslims idolaters?
« Reply #134 on: May 19, 2018, 11:09:44 AM »
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I've attended a couple of atheist conventions.  I met a guy who was an atheist gun-fanatic.  I met another who thought "atheist" meant "do anything you want to".  Neither was my style, but they WERE atheists.

The only thing atheists have in common is not believing in myths.

I'd be more specific, because "myths" don't always involve gods. You can be an atheist and still believe in ghosts, aliens, healing crystals, flat earth, or any number of myths.
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville

 

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