Author Topic: Are Christians and Muslims idolaters?  (Read 4725 times)

Are Christians and Muslims idolaters?
« on: May 05, 2018, 11:06:33 AM »


Are Christians, Muslims and atheists idolaters?

Scholars think so and so do I.

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Scriptures warn against idol worship yet that is exactly what Christian and Muslims do.
 
If you can talk about or name your God, you are an idolater. Do you realize that?

God is often thought of as an ideal.

I think that atheists would also fit into the idolater description because they idolize the notion that there is no God and have chosen that as their ideal.

Agnostics seem to be the only ones who are not idolaters because, like Gnostic Christians, they do not mind saying, I don’t know or only speaking of things they know to be facts.

Regards
DL


Online Mr.Obvious

Re: Are Christians and Muslims idolaters?
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2018, 11:56:56 AM »
I think you misunderstand atheism and agnosticism. Two answers to two different questions.
Atheists and theists can be gnostic and agnostic.
Though i doubt this is The first time you've been told this, i feel obliged to Bring it up.

In any case, i'm not familiar enough with islam to say they are isolators. But praying to Mekka does seem to imply so.
At least most christians are as Well. If you have a cross, you're already there.
"If we have to go down, we go down together!"
- Your mum, requesting 69 last night.

Re: Are Christians and Muslims idolaters?
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2018, 12:23:40 PM »
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I think that atheists would also fit into the idolater description because they idolize the notion that there is no God and have chosen that as their ideal.

DL
I cannot speak for all atheists.  But for me that statement is absurd.  I don't 'idolize' anything (well, maybe the Yankees).  I don't believe in anything.  I base my disbelief in god(s) based on the fact that not one god has made his/her presence known.  Not a single piece of empirical evidence can be shown to prove god(s).  And yes, that lack of evidence is evidence of lack.  I do believe that Donald Duck is alive and well--prove me wrong.   
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Re: Are Christians and Muslims idolaters?
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2018, 02:09:09 PM »
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I think that atheists would also fit into the idolater description because they idolize the notion that there is no God and have chosen that as their ideal.

Agnostics seem to be the only ones who are not idolaters because, like Gnostic Christians, they do not mind saying, I don’t know or only speaking of things they know to be facts.

So, lacking belief in a deity is "idolizing" the notion of God's non-existence? So would my lack of belief in Santa Claus be an idolizing of the non-existence of Santa Claus?

This notion seems absurd to me.
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“Truth is not what you want it to be; it is what it is, and you must bend to its power or live a lie.”
Miyamoto Musashi

Re: Are Christians and Muslims idolaters?
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2018, 02:15:09 PM »
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I think that atheists would also fit into the idolater description because they idolize the notion that there is no God and have chosen that as their ideal.

Wow. There's reaching and then there's complete incoherent nonsense.
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville

Online Baruch

Re: Are Christians and Muslims idolaters?
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2018, 03:01:25 PM »
I would say ... mono-maniac ... that covers both theism and atheism.  You are so sure of something, that you ignore all contrary evidence.  Of course being a complete skeptic, a nihilist, sucks too.  I would say a nihilist is just another kind of mono-maniac.

Curb your enthusiasm but don't go into a coma.  Be modest in what you think is true or false.  Nothing in excess ... per Delphic Oracle.

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The ancient Greeks would say, that going to extremes incarnates "hubris", which incites to jealousy, the Olympian gods, who arrange your well earned destruction.
שלום

Online Baruch

Re: Are Christians and Muslims idolaters?
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2018, 03:02:14 PM »
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I cannot speak for all atheists.  But for me that statement is absurd.  I don't 'idolize' anything (well, maybe the Yankees).  I don't believe in anything.  I base my disbelief in god(s) based on the fact that not one god has made his/her presence known.  Not a single piece of empirical evidence can be shown to prove god(s).  And yes, that lack of evidence is evidence of lack.  I do believe that Donald Duck is alive and well--prove me wrong.

For some, everything is about epistemology ... what do you know (not believe) and how to you know it.  Not bad in itself, but taken to excess ...

GIA ... yes, all conventional religious people are idolaters.  Not that there is anything wrong with idolatry.  Mysticism or heresy can be its own problem too ... "my ain't I special" ... being all to common.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2018, 03:03:48 PM by Baruch »
שלום

Re: Are Christians and Muslims idolaters?
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2018, 06:13:29 PM »
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For some, everything is about epistemology ... what do you know (not believe) and how to you know it.  Not bad in itself, but taken to excess ...

Yeah, I do subscribe in the idea of moderation in everything.  And I suppose that epistemology can be taken to excess-----but how? 
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Online Hydra009

Re: Are Christians and Muslims idolaters?
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2018, 06:22:57 PM »
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Are Christians, Muslims and atheists idolaters?

Scholars think so and so do I.
It's pretty silly to accuse people who don't believe in a god of worshiping a physical object as if it were a god.  Belief in a god is kinda a prerequisite for that.

Offline aitm

Re: Are Christians and Muslims idolaters?
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2018, 07:09:57 PM »
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Are Christians, Muslims and atheists idolaters?

Scholars think so and so do I.

 You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Scriptures warn against idol worship yet that is exactly what Christian and Muslims do.
 
If you can talk about or name your God, you are an idolater. Do you realize that?

God is often thought of as an ideal.

I think that atheists would also fit into the idolater description because they idolize the notion that there is no God and have chosen that as their ideal.

Agnostics seem to be the only ones who are not idolaters because, like Gnostic Christians, they do not mind saying, I don’t know or only speaking of things they know to be facts.

Regards
DL



so…..only those 3 meet the criteria? Seems like we could expand that by about a thousand and easily leave atheists out of it completely. Ever hear of Hindu? Meh….when you fail at the first shot, only the idiots leave you a second chance. Sorry….you lose.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Offline SGOS

Re: Are Christians and Muslims idolaters?
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2018, 07:11:50 PM »
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Are Christians, Muslims and atheists idolaters?
Scholars think so and so do I.
Quote
Not all scholars.  You might find one from Liberty University if your are Hell bent on thinking they are actual scholars.

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I think that atheists would also fit into the idolater description because they idolize the notion that there is no God and have chosen that as their ideal.
What you think is based on the not knowing what you are talking about.

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Agnostics seem to be the only ones who are not idolaters because, like Gnostic Christians, they do not mind saying, I don’t know or only speaking of things they know to be facts.
What it seems to you is based on an incorrect definition of Gnostic.

Online Cavebear

Re: Are Christians and Muslims idolaters?
« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2018, 07:42:52 PM »
Apologies to MikeCl:  I cannot speak for all atheists.  But for me that statement is absurd.  I don't 'idolize' anything (well, maybe the Nationals).  ;)

But I do not idolize anything.  I like cats and think they exist (rather a lot of evidence here).  I could form an image of one from wet clay (badly).  That clay model would exist but not as an idol.  I did meet a lady on "Lonely Atheists" once who (it turned out) actually DID worship cats.  Apparently, her parents told her her only chance at marriage was to find an atheist.  Was THAT all sick or what?

Notice how deftly I changed the subject...  LOL!
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Re: Are Christians and Muslims idolaters?
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2018, 08:16:01 PM »
Cavebear, I don't root against the Nationals.  I sort of feel sorry for them--they seemed to have inherited the genes of their forerunners, the Expos.  They just can't win for some reason.  Not even Harper can seem to push them over the hump.  I mean a team with Tim Raines, Larry Walker and Steve Rogers couldn't win it all either--should have at least once.  Good luck, except against the Giants or Yankees. :))
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Re: Are Christians and Muslims idolaters?
« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2018, 08:16:15 PM »
This televangelist says that freedom of religion only applies to Christianity:



Quote
On his radio program yesterday, the American Family Association’s Bryan Fischer declared, once again, that only Christianity is protected by the First Amendment and that all non-Christians—including Jews, Muslims and Native Americans—have no constitutionally guaranteed right to freely practice their faiths.

Fischer, who routinely puts forward a completely incoherent theory regarding the meaning of the First Amendment, was discussing a case involving a North Carolina inmate who is suing for the right to practice Wicca when he declared that “worshipers of the devil” and all other non-Christian faiths are not entitled to First Amendment protections...

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And yet, it's the Christians who are being oppressed by us God-forsaken atheists.
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“Truth is not what you want it to be; it is what it is, and you must bend to its power or live a lie.”
Miyamoto Musashi

Re: Are Christians and Muslims idolaters?
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2018, 08:20:03 PM »
Claims made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. That applies to all claims, no matter how much you want your unsupported claim to be true. As they say, pics or it didn't happen.
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville

 

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