Author Topic: USA Pledge of Allegiance  (Read 2174 times)

Offline Cavebear

Re: USA Pledge of Allegiance
« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2018, 01:41:53 PM »
It was always only the "under God" part that bothered me as a child.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: USA Pledge of Allegiance
« Reply #16 on: September 15, 2018, 03:36:24 PM »
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It was always only the "under God" part that bothered me as a child.

Given your nature, from your youth, that is only natural.  I think you are a patriot, just not the same flavor as I am.  And I don't suppose your reservation about that oath, was because you or your parents were communists.
שלום

Offline Draconic Aiur

Re: USA Pledge of Allegiance
« Reply #17 on: September 15, 2018, 03:40:19 PM »
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I agree that the pledge should be all inclusive, but it's just a pledge, one of the first memorizations we learn as children.  As a small child, I enjoyed saying it every morning in school, but only because it was something we could all do and perform equally well.  But mostly, it's just some bullshit we learned to recite.  It's not legally binding.  No one is committed to believing that it reflects some kind of reality about the United States of America.  I kind of understood that as a child.  I remember when they added "under God" because there was a lot of approving fal-der-rahl about it, both in school and at home. 

Today, I feel a mild annoyance when we say it because it seems like indoctrination forced upon us by an entity of highly questionable ethics.  Not that I feel more allegiance to some other country.  It just doesn't mean much to me, especially when I'm pledging allegiance to the whole package (the USA and all it stands for), much of which is downright distasteful.

When it's all said and done, no one is going to come back at me for opposing one of our stupid wars and remind me that I made a pledge or took an oath to support the folly and bigotry of a president, Congress, or the Supreme Court. 

Still brainwasing and propaganda

Offline Baruch

Re: USA Pledge of Allegiance
« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2018, 03:41:43 PM »
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Still brainwasing and propaganda

But are you anarchist?  Anti-Education anti-parents?  Otherwise ... you can't escape the brainwashing or the propaganda.  At least in that case, you end up with a clean brain that is also blindly obedient.
שלום

Offline GSOgymrat

Re: USA Pledge of Allegiance
« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2018, 07:39:12 PM »
Anyone else take the Boy Scout oath?

On my honor, I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight.

A Scout is:

Trustworthy,
Loyal,
Helpful,
Friendly,
Courteous,
Kind,
Obedient,
Cheerful,
Thrifty,
Brave,
Clean,
and Reverent.


Yeah, I wasn't able to keep that oath..
“You are the sky. Everything else – it’s just the weather.”

― Pema Chödrön

Re: USA Pledge of Allegiance
« Reply #20 on: September 15, 2018, 07:55:49 PM »
The only thing to which we should be pledging allegiance is the Constitution of the U.S. - not the flag, not the president, not the national anthem.
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I'm waiting for Trump to say: "We could easily stop all the wildfires from happening just by removing all the oxygen from the atmosphere."

Offline SGOS

Re: USA Pledge of Allegiance
« Reply #21 on: September 15, 2018, 09:30:21 PM »
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Anyone else take the Boy Scout oath?

On my honor, I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight.

A Scout is:

Trustworthy,
Loyal,
Helpful,
Friendly,
Courteous,
Kind,
Obedient,
Cheerful,
Thrifty,
Brave,
Clean,
and Reverent.


I remember that!  Some things you can't unlearn.

Offline Baruch

Re: USA Pledge of Allegiance
« Reply #22 on: September 16, 2018, 01:14:07 AM »
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The only thing to which we should be pledging allegiance is the Constitution of the U.S. - not the flag, not the president, not the national anthem.

Military pledges to the Constitution, as ordered by the President and officers appointed by him/her.  All enemies, foreign and domestic.  One really can't salute the flag, except as symbolic of the above, though obviously the "under god" part doesn't disqualify atheist personnel.  The national anthem again is symbolic of the primary oath was well, in the same qualified manner.

Otherwise ... one is being a Confederate or worse.
שלום

Offline Baruch

Re: USA Pledge of Allegiance
« Reply #23 on: September 16, 2018, 01:15:28 AM »
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Anyone else take the Boy Scout oath?

On my honor, I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight.

A Scout is:

Trustworthy,
Loyal,
Helpful,
Friendly,
Courteous,
Kind,
Obedient,
Cheerful,
Thrifty,
Brave,
Clean,
and Reverent.


Yeah, I wasn't able to keep that oath..

Obviously the "morally straight" is harder for some of us.  That and "reverent" ... but the rest are pretty reliable.
שלום

Offline trdsf

Re: USA Pledge of Allegiance
« Reply #24 on: September 16, 2018, 02:42:20 PM »
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The only thing to which we should be pledging allegiance is the Constitution of the U.S. - not the flag, not the president, not the national anthem.
I think of the Pledge in terms of what the flag is supposed to stand for, so I don't have a real problem with it.  I do leave out two words towards the end, however.  And I'm wavering on whether I think 'indivisible' is an appropriate word to include; I happen to believe that states do have the right to secede if they so choose.  The Supreme Court has so far only ruled that You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login, although that decision was handed down only four years after the Civil War, and I don't think they were in much of a mood to legitimize anything done by the Confederacy.

But fundamentally, if the Congress agreed to allow, say, Texas secede and then Texas voted to secede either by vote in the state house or by binding plebescite — or if Texas presented Congress with a request to secede and convinced Congress to pass it — there's no reason Texas can't secede.
Sir Terry Pratchett, on being told about the theory that the universe is a computer simulation: "If we all get out and in again, would it start to work properly this time?"

Offline Baruch

Re: USA Pledge of Allegiance
« Reply #25 on: September 16, 2018, 02:45:35 PM »
The only reason why Texas would secede, is so that we can unambiguously invade and conquer the other 49 states ;-))
שלום

Re: USA Pledge of Allegiance
« Reply #26 on: September 16, 2018, 03:02:04 PM »
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The only thing to which we should be pledging allegiance is the Constitution of the U.S. - not the flag, not the president, not the national anthem.
That's what military people do. I swear to defend the Constitution of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic. ...
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Re: USA Pledge of Allegiance
« Reply #27 on: September 16, 2018, 03:05:19 PM »
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Anyone else take the Boy Scout oath?

On my honor, I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight.

A Scout is:

Trustworthy,
Loyal,
Helpful,
Friendly,
Courteous,
Kind,
Obedient,
Cheerful,
Thrifty,
Brave,
Clean,
and Reverent.


Yeah, I wasn't able to keep that oath..
Yeah, I took that.  But my hand was not on a bible so it did not count. 
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Re: USA Pledge of Allegiance
« Reply #28 on: September 16, 2018, 03:10:12 PM »
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That's what military people do. I swear to defend the Constitution of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic. ...
I took that oath.  So, with that oath in mind, should not the Joint Chiefs of Staff be planning to remove Trump from office and return this country to rule by the constitution????
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Re: USA Pledge of Allegiance
« Reply #29 on: September 16, 2018, 05:11:53 PM »
I definitely think of Trump as a "domestic enemy."
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I'm waiting for Trump to say: "We could easily stop all the wildfires from happening just by removing all the oxygen from the atmosphere."

 

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