Author Topic: USA Pledge of Allegiance  (Read 1725 times)

Offline Baruch

Re: USA Pledge of Allegiance
« Reply #30 on: September 16, 2018, 06:34:14 PM »
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I took that oath.  So, with that oath in mind, should not the Joint Chiefs of Staff be planning to remove Trump from office and return this country to rule by the constitution????

They acquiesced to the elimination of JFK, so don't ask unless you like the consequences.  They aren't a 4th branch of government.  Unless you want to be more like Latin America.  The military obeys the President (under UCMJ) and the chain of command.  And they are not politically active.  This obedience is what made Grant a hero and Lee a goat.  Democrats typically have divided loyalties ... some to regions (California) ... others to ideology.  I am not sure the Republicans have a regionalism, more a class loyalty.  And of course ideology.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2018, 06:39:47 PM by Baruch »
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Offline Baruch

Re: USA Pledge of Allegiance
« Reply #31 on: September 16, 2018, 06:35:48 PM »
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I definitely think of Trump as a "domestic enemy."

I think of the Bushes and Clintons the same way.  But it is a good thing we don't act on that.  Otherwise we could look like Rome during a civil war of the late Republic.  Eventually you get a military dictatorship that way.
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Offline Baruch

Re: USA Pledge of Allegiance
« Reply #32 on: September 16, 2018, 06:37:32 PM »
There are legal ways of acting against a sitting President.  But both major parties are made up of posturing cowards.  If you support "end justifies the means" then you are fascist.  There are a lot of fascists posting here, when their political dreams are pissed on.  Acting outside the Constitution nearly got us destroyed last time (1861-1865).  I wouldn't chance it.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2018, 06:41:29 PM by Baruch »
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Re: USA Pledge of Allegiance
« Reply #33 on: September 16, 2018, 11:11:56 PM »
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I am proposing an amendment to the pledge so that we can be all inclusive.  After all why should Christians get it all. 

I pledge Allegiance to the flag
of the United States of America
and to the Republic for which it stands,
one nation under God, Allah, Yahweh, Ababinini, Yu-huang, Chukwu, or none at all, indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all.

There are probably more deities out there in the good old USA that are believed but these are the only ones that I could find with my limited research capabilities.

I propose we go back to the Pledge I learned in the first grade, when there was no mention of imaginary deities.

(Under god was added in 1954)

Yes, I'm that damn old 
In dog beers I've only had one.

Re: USA Pledge of Allegiance
« Reply #34 on: September 17, 2018, 01:13:07 PM »
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I took that oath.  So, with that oath in mind, should not the Joint Chiefs of Staff be planning to remove Trump from office and return this country to rule by the constitution????
Just shoot him.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Re: USA Pledge of Allegiance
« Reply #35 on: September 17, 2018, 01:16:07 PM »
I wouldn't say that too loudly, if I were you, you might get a visit by men in black, in black helicopters...
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"The Republicans went from Abraham Lincoln to Sarah Palin to Donald Trump. No wonder they don't believe in evolution."
Any Borowitz

Offline Baruch

Re: USA Pledge of Allegiance
« Reply #36 on: September 17, 2018, 07:43:34 PM »
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I wouldn't say that too loudly, if I were you, you might get a visit by men in black, in black helicopters...

No doubt, he was on the grassy knoll in 1963 ;-(

See, this is why there is no morality, because it all depends on which politician you love or detest.
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Offline Cavebear

Re: USA Pledge of Allegiance
« Reply #37 on: September 19, 2018, 02:48:33 AM »
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Anyone else take the Boy Scout oath?

On my honor, I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight.

A Scout is:

Trustworthy,
Loyal,
Helpful,
Friendly,
Courteous,
Kind,
Obedient,
Cheerful,
Thrifty,
Brave,
Clean,
and Reverent.


Yeah, I wasn't able to keep that oath..

It was the "god" part that really bothered me.  I never WAS "reverent".  LOL!
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Re: USA Pledge of Allegiance
« Reply #38 on: September 22, 2018, 12:33:31 AM »
Whenever required to say the pledge, I always say 'one nation under bob'. 

Small victories and all.

Offline SGOS

Re: USA Pledge of Allegiance
« Reply #39 on: September 22, 2018, 05:13:27 AM »
I did feel pride in that I memorized the list.  It was a nice list of traits, and sometimes I would even do those things.  Reverent was a special case.  Think about it.  I could picture myself being obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, etc,.  They were all traits requiring some kind of executable and observable  behaviors, but I had a hard time picturing myself being reverent.

clean = washing with soap
brave = taking on a bigger kid
thrifty = not buying something I didn't need
cheerful = looking happy and laughing
etc.

But what does it look like to be reverent?  Praying?  Sure I prayed, but was that the same thing as being reverent, or was it just begging?  I came up with a visual picture of myself looking serious and stubbornly not saying anything.  That was the image for "Reverent" that always came to mind as I tried to internalize the traits.

Does that make sense?  I tend to visualize things I learn, so there's usually an associated image, but the one for "Reverent" seemed kind of weak and could be interpreted in any number of ways as being something else entirely.  There was a vagueness about it.

Offline Baruch

Re: USA Pledge of Allegiance
« Reply #40 on: September 22, 2018, 07:12:29 AM »
Yeah, a prayer could be selfish, or not.  Reverent means showing deep respect.  Something difficult for a teen.  Usually an off-shoot of humility, also something difficult for a teen.
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Re: USA Pledge of Allegiance
« Reply #41 on: September 22, 2018, 01:27:26 PM »
Right, all teens are one monolithic group, with no variation among them.
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"The Republicans went from Abraham Lincoln to Sarah Palin to Donald Trump. No wonder they don't believe in evolution."
Any Borowitz

Offline Baruch

Re: USA Pledge of Allegiance
« Reply #42 on: September 22, 2018, 02:30:55 PM »
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Right, all teens are one monolithic group, with no variation among them.

Thanks to variation in population, we needn't worry about Nazis etc, because there are good Nazis and bad Nazis.

Or are you saying, you like all the Luke Skywalker angst/whine from teens?
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Offline the_antithesis

Re: USA Pledge of Allegiance
« Reply #43 on: September 22, 2018, 03:40:10 PM »
I recall that by high school, no one bothered doing the pledge and the teachers didn't bother trying to enforce it.

But if students must recite the pledge of allegiance, I recommend bringing back the Bellamy salute.


Offline SGOS

Re: USA Pledge of Allegiance
« Reply #44 on: September 22, 2018, 04:00:10 PM »
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I recall that by high school, no one bothered doing the pledge and the teachers didn't bother trying to enforce it.
Yeah, as I recall, it just quietly went away.  It gradually went from mandatory to suggested to occasionally to 'occasionally rare' to forgotten.  That's the way I remember.  In grade school, it was kind of fun saying it, but that wasn't enough to keep it going.  I'd like to understand the group psychology that changed it's importance.

 

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