Author Topic: Human projection: space aliens, monsters, and rebellious robots  (Read 472 times)

Online Hydra009

In one of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login, he talks about how the general public conceptualizes evolution as "a constant progression into perfection" alongside notions of technological progression, it's very easy (perhaps inevitable) for people to conceptualize a futuristic alien species - less hairy, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login, etc - you naturally arrive at a stereotypical grey alien.  "The large-brained skinny humanoids with delicate features is just our perception of our own evolutionary future.  This is our idealized version of where evolution and technology will take humanity."

In short, the greys didn't come from some distant star, they came from our own imaginations and our unrealistic expectations of the future.



And there's a tinge of narcissism to this: an advanced, "evolved" humanoid race - almost elfin in that they're extremely knowledgeable and powerful as opposed to the comparatively brutish and primitive mankind.  It's just a distorted reflection of humanity, with desirable parts elongated and undesirable parts minimized - both in physically and mentally.  The greys are just a manifestation of how humans would like to view themselves.

And I thought about other mythological beings who would fit this same sort of pattern.

Almost every monstrous creature I've heard about is simply an upgraded version of a natural predator.
Werewolves = humans + wolves
Vampires = humans + vampire bats
Graboids = very big worms, albeit with beaks and tentacles
Dragons = reptiles + wings + fire-breathing
Cthulhu = cephalopod + humanoid + wings
And of course, leviathans, krakens, etc are simply exaggerated versions of real sea creatures.



And finally, rebellious robots.



Robots get more and more intelligent, somehow develop human emotions simultaneously, and bam, there's a robot uprising.  Why would they turn on us?  Because that's what we would do.  These scifi stories about robots held in servitude and violently rebelling against their masters aren't really about robots, they're really about us and our own sordid history of slavery and violent revolt.

All these tales about supernatural/extraterrestrial creatures are really tales about us - our hopes and fears given form and nothing more.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2018, 08:30:19 AM by Hydra009 »

Re: Human projection: space aliens, monsters, and rebellious robots
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2018, 04:49:27 AM »
You just now realize this?
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Online Hydra009

Re: Human projection: space aliens, monsters, and rebellious robots
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2018, 08:27:56 AM »
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You just now realize this?
I am just now communicating this explicitly.

The robot rebellion is the most relevant because apparently a sizable portion of the public thinks the sci fi tales are literal truth and not allegory.

On the video for the army's robotic Mule, which was repeatedly shoved to test stability, there are tons of comments warning of robotic retaliation for its mistreatment.  The fact that this is a projection of human norms unto a wholly non-human machine goes utterly unremarked.

Re: Human projection: space aliens, monsters, and rebellious robots
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2018, 08:43:51 AM »
Ah, you haven't realized that rude people will pull your leg completely off and not hand it back.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Offline SGOS

Re: Human projection: space aliens, monsters, and rebellious robots
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2018, 08:48:15 AM »
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the general public conceptualizes evolution as "a constant progression into perfection"
Even after learning about it, I held onto the conceptualization of evolution being a progression that would naturally and always lead to ultimate sentience with humans or some similar intelligence as a temporary link in the chain.  In a sense, ultimate "perfection" I perceived as advanced intelligence, not the ability to survive some other aspect of our environment like massive bursts of global radiation or some other unexpected alteration. 

I think this is common.  Humans psychologically default to the view of superior intelligence as the end goal, probably because it's the only evolutionary advantage we have over any other form of life.  In almost every other aspect of species durability, we fail, and we do so miserably.  Without our intelligence, we would be nothing more than food for other species.  We probably also view intelligence as the endpoint, because after 4 billion years of evolution, look where it ended; Us!  That seems like an endpoint only because it's at the end of what came before.  A history 4 billion years long and ends at us.  That can't be coincidence, right?  It must be a natural law or some predetermination, otherwise evolution would have gravitated to something other than us, right?  We are like the arrogant puddle that thinks the hole he's in was made for him.  This flawed perception is caused by our psychological make up, possibly the most flawed component of our higher intelligence.

Re: Human projection: space aliens, monsters, and rebellious robots
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2018, 08:57:26 AM »
They miss the point that it hasn't "ended" with us and it wasn't a straight progression for four billion years. The human ego is a fucking crazy thing.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Offline Baruch

Re: Human projection: space aliens, monsters, and rebellious robots
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2018, 10:52:10 AM »
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Ah, you haven't realized that rude people will pull your leg completely off and not hand it back.

Bipartisan.  When it comes to fame, power and wealth, things get serious.
שלום

Offline Baruch

Re: Human projection: space aliens, monsters, and rebellious robots
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2018, 03:46:54 PM »
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I am just now communicating this explicitly.

The robot rebellion is the most relevant because apparently a sizable portion of the public thinks the sci fi tales are literal truth and not allegory.

On the video for the army's robotic Mule, which was repeatedly shoved to test stability, there are tons of comments warning of robotic retaliation for its mistreatment.  The fact that this is a projection of human norms unto a wholly non-human machine goes utterly unremarked.

Look up the 1920s play, R.U.R.  ... a Czech play that brought "robot" into modern language.  It is a parable about Leftist revolution.
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Re: Human projection: space aliens, monsters, and rebellious robots
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2018, 06:06:11 PM »
Robot workers of the world, UNITE!


Lol


Robots with AI are just another tool - like microscopes extend our eye sight, and backhoes extend our muscles, an AI only extends our brain power. What is done with it is not the fault of the tool, but of the users.
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“There are priests who carry out exorcisms on their mobile phones. That’s possible thanks to Jesus”
Cardinal Ernest Simoni
“Life swings like a pendulum backward and forward between pain and boredom”
Arthur Schopenhauer

Offline Shiranu

Re: Human projection: space aliens, monsters, and rebellious robots
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2018, 06:16:28 PM »
I don't view greys as anything remotely close to evolutionary perfection...
"I can’t move on, I can’t relax. ’Cause when you're gone... panic attacks." - Elohim

"Letting go means to come to the realization that some people are a part of your history, but not a part of your destiny" - Steve Maraboli

Re: Human projection: space aliens, monsters, and rebellious robots
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2018, 06:20:32 PM »
Yeah, they're so...androgynous!
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
“There are priests who carry out exorcisms on their mobile phones. That’s possible thanks to Jesus”
Cardinal Ernest Simoni
“Life swings like a pendulum backward and forward between pain and boredom”
Arthur Schopenhauer

Offline Baruch

Re: Human projection: space aliens, monsters, and rebellious robots
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2018, 07:33:39 PM »
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I don't view greys as anything remotely close to evolutionary perfection...

They can defrag their computer hard drive using thought alone!
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Offline Baruch

Re: Human projection: space aliens, monsters, and rebellious robots
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2018, 07:34:44 PM »
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Yeah, they're so...androgynous!

Maybe they reproduce by cellular division.  Definite proof of mathematical ability, if you can do long division like that ;-)
« Last Edit: April 30, 2018, 06:26:16 AM by Baruch »
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Re: Human projection: space aliens, monsters, and rebellious robots
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2018, 10:07:28 PM »
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Robot workers of the world, UNITE!


Lol


Robots with AI are just another tool - like microscopes extend our eye sight, and backhoes extend our muscles, an AI only extends our brain power. What is done with it is not the fault of the tool, but of the users.

Is that UNITE or-----UNTIE
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Online Hydra009

Re: Human projection: space aliens, monsters, and rebellious robots
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2018, 12:58:04 AM »
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We probably also view intelligence as the endpoint, because after 4 billion years of evolution, look where it ended; Us!
No doubt every other species on the planet would share that perspective if they had the intelligence to formulate it.  Flowering plants - the apex of evolution.  Crocodiles - the apex of evolution.  Cockroaches - the apex of evolution.  It's all true, from a certain point of view.  :)

 

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