Lets talk starbucks

[Baruch]

As I've learned working in a big retail chain, the higher ups don't give a fuck about those on ground level, their ants to them, and they just want a machine thats running. Makes me think of that scene from the first incredibles movie with boss.
This then is just a PR stunt to appease people, rather then getting their hands dirty with the ants, they'd sooner wash their hands of the situation making claim this will fix it and convince people suddenly the human race only thinks one way and one way only.

It may improve their image, which is a vital part of their brand.  I don't see their coffee as a vital part of their brand.

[Cavebear]

Training isn't going to change anyone who is already significantly prejudiced but I don't think training would be completely ineffective if done properly. In this Starbucks case, the manager may not have had a prejudiced thought in her head when dealing with this situation. She may have interacted with these black men exactly like she would have with white men. However, the men and some of the patrons, both perceived her actions as racially motivated. This is because there is a cultural narrative that black men are discriminated against in these kinds of circumstances. There is no "shopping while white" meme. Whether this narrative of discrimination is factually true or whether any individual involved is actually being prejudiced doesn't change the outcome as long as people believe the narrative. Training can help employees be mindful when interacting with people of different cultures that they need to be cognizant of how their behavior may be interpreted. If this manager had realized that calling law enforcement on two black men who aren't disturbing other customers might be perceived as racially motivated by both the men and other patrons she might have chosen an intervention that didn't lead to arrests, protests, national news coverage, being fired, mandatory training and profit loss for her employer. Treating everyone exactly the same seems like the fairest and most reasonable way to interact with people but because people are not all the same it doesn't always result in the same outcome.

I agree completely.  I actually suspect the whole situation was possibly misapplying "loitering" rules, intended to deal with homeless people using "facilities" badly with a sad outcome and a tragedy of errors followed.

Certainly any business has the right to demand some people leave when they don't fit the business plan.  It may have been a poor application of those company rules (badly applied).  But I suspect Starbucks will sell coffee equally to anyone (and should) but they had a manager who made a bad decision between "loitering" and "waiting".  It is sad all around.

I kind of understand both sides.  But wouldn't the proper solution been to just take that one person off to the side and suggest a better definition of company rules about "waiting"?

Forgive me, I look at things very simply sometimes.  I mean, if the manger was racist, fire his/her ass on the spot and kick them on the way out.  But I suspect that wasn't the case here.  Sometimes you want someone to leave for good reasons just because they should leave for many reasons Loud annoying, profane.  But it should never be racial sexual or ethnic. 

[Draconic Aiur]

The point of a coffee shop is to hang around. They have free wifi. People hang out there all the time. They have business meetings, meet up with friends or groups, they study there, etc. It's designed for that very thing. Why were these young men asked to leave after being there for a total of I think three minutes without buying coffee?

Because when told they couldn't use the restroom they got into a hissy fit

[Shiranu]

Because when told they couldn't use the restroom they got into a hissy fit

Evidence?

[Cavebear]

Evidence?

Agree.  From Starbuck's POV, it is just a PR nightmare to be dealt with.  But from my POV, I want to see the video and know what actually happened.  It could either way and all I want is the truth of the sitch.

[Mermaid]

Because when told they couldn't use the restroom they got into a hissy fit

What you basing that on?

[Hijiri Byakuren]

I've hung around in a Starbucks waiting for a friend without buying anything first. I once waited *gasp* a whole ten minutes for someone to meet me there before ordering anything. Never got so much as a strange look from the staff, much less asked to leave.

Of course, I'm white. I'm sure that has nothing to do with anything.

[Gilgamesh]

I've hung around in a Starbucks waiting for a friend without buying anything first. I once waited *gasp* a whole ten minutes for someone to meet me there before ordering anything. Never got so much as a strange look from the staff, much less asked to leave.

Of course, I'm white. I'm sure that has nothing to do with anything.

It doesn't. Thousand of people of every race hang out in starbucks loitering about every single day. This day the establishment told the loiterers to leave. They refused to leave, because they think they are entitled to hang out on other peoples property somehow. A private entity always has the right to tell people to leave their premises. That's their fucking right.

This isn't a regular thing. It's just that the instance happened to happen to blacks. If there were more cases of this happening at starbucks, and the vast majority of them were happening to blacks and not other races, then you would have evidence that starbucks is racist against blacks. But since that doesn't happen, there is no logical reason to think this was racism.

It was just a single thing that happened, and it happened to a black person.

[Baruch]

I've hung around in a Starbucks waiting for a friend without buying anything first. I once waited *gasp* a whole ten minutes for someone to meet me there before ordering anything. Never got so much as a strange look from the staff, much less asked to leave.

Of course, I'm white. I'm sure that has nothing to do with anything.

If you had presented as a anime girl ... you would have gotten attention, maybe dating offers from cute boys ;-)

[Mr.Obvious]

Circumventing this entire debate.

We have Starbucks since a few years.
I've gone twice.

It was horrible. Their regular coffee is too expensive and not tasty enough, for what it is.
And the very idea of drinking a pumpking rubarb machiatto-frappuchino fusion with herbal tea splashed into it, or whatever crap they were selling, made me nautious and grumpy.

Their desserts were fine though, but far too expensive as well.

[SGOS]

Circumventing this entire debate.

We have Starbucks since a few years.
I've gone twice.

It was horrible. Their regular coffee is too expensive and not tasty enough, for what it is.
And the very idea of drinking a pumpking rubarb machiatto-frappuchino fusion with herbal tea splashed into it, or whatever crap they were selling, made me nautious and grumpy.

Their desserts were fine though, but far too expensive as well.

I like deserts that pack a lot more punch.  If I want something to get me started in the morning that will rocket me into the day walking really fast, and jabbering, "Good morning," to everyone, give me a deep fried donut slobbered with chocolate that runs down the sides and drips on the plate, or something with a cheap jelly filling that screams, "Heart attack!"  Starbucks coffee is OK, but the deserts are all these fancy pants yuppie "experiences," like a thin slice of pound cake.  Forget the exquisite chevron of a curly chocolate piglet tail that covers 3% of the cake.  Give me something that causes an immediate allergic reaction.  You need to head down to the donut shop for that.

I agree with you about the pumpkin latte.  Never had one.  The very idea of the thing freaks me out.

[Baruch]

Sorry, you folks who would miss a seasonal treat like spice-pumpkin latte ... or egg-nog ice-cream are kill-joys.

[Mr.Obvious]

Sorry, you folks who would miss a seasonal treat like spice-pumpkin latte ... or egg-nog ice-cream are kill-joys.

Strawberries are a seasonal treat.

Your latte is a recurring hipster nightmare.

[Baruch]

Strawberries are a seasonal treat.

Your latte is a recurring hipster nightmare.

Europeans don't like pumpkins?  Don't like turkey (the meat)?  No cranberries/cranberry jelly?  No stuffing (I prefer maize based stuffing).

[Munch]

Europeans don't like pumpkins?  Don't like turkey (the meat)?  No cranberries/cranberry jelly?  No stuffing (I prefer maize based stuffing).

maybe I'm just trying to break the mold, but I like pumpkin spice latte, I do bake pumpkin pie around halloween, and I've even made my own pumpkin spice, cinnamon, ground ginger, nutmeg, ground allspice and ground cloves