Author Topic: Lets talk starbucks  (Read 2952 times)

Re: Lets talk starbucks
« Reply #30 on: April 23, 2018, 12:42:35 AM »
he said, she said. Everyone on both sides is assuming they know how events played out. Best I can figure out:

Two men plan to meet a third who's buying to celebrate some business transaction. One man asks to use the restroom, told not until he buys something. Two men sit down. Manager goes over, asks if they want to order, is told they are waiting for friend, maybe asks them to leave, goes and calls cops--all within two minutes of them entering the store. Cops show up four minutes after call, ask men to leave. Men refuse, are arrested, during which time the friend shows up. 
The manager apparently claims to have been cussed out by the two men and police say they were causing a disturbance, but witnesses have said that they weren't doing anything to make a scene.
I obviously don't know exactly who said what or how accurate the above is, but I can say that the other patrons, the closest to neutral witnesses available, seem to all be on the side of the two men.

I've never been to Philadelphia, but I was thinking about a Burger King I ate at 3 times the other week. My job frequently brings me to that area. When I eat there I almost always use the bathroom before ordering--I want to wash my hands before I eat and don't really want to leave my food unattended or miss my order being called. I've even used the bathroom there without ordering anything once. It's south of the senior center, west of several senior living communities so often has a group of older men--only some of whom have ordered--camped out in there. I've never seen an employee ask them to leave. All 3 time last week I waited to order until my coworkers arrived--once one of my coworkers waited till his wife and kid showed up. Every time that was more then 2 minutes, maybe even 6.
It's never happened, but if the BK manager asked me to order or leave, I'd probably tell him I was waiting for my coworkers and stick around. If the cops showed up I'd leave--and never come back--but I think I'd *want* to stay and 'defend my "rights"'. On the other hand, if I were the manager and some guy cussed me out I'd probably call the cops. *shrug*
"Observe that noses were made to wear spectacles; and so we have spectacles. Legs were visibly instituted to be breeched, and we have breeches" Voltaire๏ฟฝs Candide

Re: Lets talk starbucks
« Reply #31 on: April 23, 2018, 02:52:02 AM »
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I think that if kinda defeats your whole point. The thing is, white people AREN'T arrested for refusing to leave Starbucks, because no one calls the cops on two white guys who's only "crime" was to ask to use the restroom.

If someone asks me to randomly leave their store while giving me no reason, like fuck I am leaving. The thing is having light skin that doesn't happen to me. I don't walk into a store and people instantly assume I am a criminal. Terrorist? Okay, possibly, but criminal? Nah.

The two possibilities aren't mutually exclusive. White guys being asked to leave would not lead people to assume racist motives, and it wouldn't be considered newsworthy. So that would keep us from hearing about it if it did happen. Black guys doing what millions of white people do every day and being asked to leave, that's pretty suspicious. I think it is more likely that this sort of thing happens to black people more than white people, but it is also true that the media absolutely loves controversy and will latch onto any case of apparent racism.
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville

Offline Shiranu

Re: Lets talk starbucks
« Reply #32 on: April 23, 2018, 03:36:28 AM »
Quote
I think it is more likely that this sort of thing happens to black people more than white people, but it is also true that the media absolutely loves controversy and will latch onto any case of apparent racism.

I am trying to find links to the studies that show black people do face this type of situation at a significantly higher rate than white people (in controlled situations, mind you; not just random African Americans reporting it but studies done by criminologists), but the main one I want to quote you have to have access to the data base to access it (Gabiddon's, "Racial Profiling By Store Clerks and...).

Likewise you can look up the number of African Americans who have reported this (and also Arab Americans) happening versus the number of white people who can say that it has happened to them. It is simply not close.

"Shopping while black" is, unfortunately, a sentence with meaning in American society... though the majority are blissfully unaware of it.

I'm certain white people do face this as well; but the difference is that it is more likely to be based on their attire and attitude rather than the colour of their skin. And certainly discrimination based on attire is wrong, but you cant ethically equate attire and complexion as relatively similar attributes.
I've Got Love, Fuck Your Money.

"Intellectualization creates a gap or lack of rapport between you and your life. You may think about things so much that you get into the state where you are eating the menu instead of the dinner." -Alan Watts

Offline Munch

Re: Lets talk starbucks
« Reply #33 on: April 23, 2018, 04:40:44 AM »
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You get more and more ridiculous by the day.

Or hit a nerve more accurately each day. Good, my skills improving

Offline Baruch

Re: Lets talk starbucks
« Reply #34 on: April 23, 2018, 06:43:24 AM »
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Or hit a nerve more accurately each day. Good, my skills improving

You work in retail, right?  Do you have a different annoyance with some kinds of customers over others?  On what basis?  Anyone else in retail can comment, I can't, I don't work in retail.  Does Shiranu or Mermaid work in retail?

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« Last Edit: April 23, 2018, 06:45:24 AM by Baruch »
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Offline Munch

Re: Lets talk starbucks
« Reply #35 on: April 23, 2018, 06:48:49 AM »
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You work in retail, right?  Do you have a different annoyance with some kinds of customers over others?  On what basis?  Anyone else in retail can comment, I can't, I don't work in retail.  Does Shiranu or Mermaid work in retail?

๐“Žก๐“Žก๐“‡ฐ

Usually it's the clueless nature of customers in general who think you govern every aspect of the retail environment. I got a long list of why I hate customers, but a better sum up is Sergeant Ducky on youtube, he went through what I did.

Offline Baruch

Re: Lets talk starbucks
« Reply #36 on: April 23, 2018, 06:49:26 AM »
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The two possibilities aren't mutually exclusive. White guys being asked to leave would not lead people to assume racist motives, and it wouldn't be considered newsworthy. So that would keep us from hearing about it if it did happen. Black guys doing what millions of white people do every day and being asked to leave, that's pretty suspicious. I think it is more likely that this sort of thing happens to black people more than white people, but it is also true that the media absolutely loves controversy and will latch onto any case of apparent racism.

"would not lead people to assume racist motives" ... there are lots of excuses to be a dick.  One of them is racism.  SJWs are against dicks, and are in favor of that other gonad.  I am expecting an effort to create the Black Coffee Matters group.  Minorities in general, and minority colors in particular .... are paranoid by circumstance.  Can't be helped.  You either blend in, or you get nailed down, like that nail that sticks up.  That is how society works (except on Star Trek NG ... the EU version of Star Trek Classic).  Idealists deny reality (for a supposed better alternative).  People who react negatively, rather than adaptively, to the way society is ... are prima facie anti-social misfits.  Of course, not everyone can adapt, even if they want to.  My handicapped daughter for instance.

๐“Žก๐“Žก๐“‡ฐ
« Last Edit: April 23, 2018, 06:52:40 AM by Baruch »
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Offline SGOS

Re: Lets talk starbucks
« Reply #37 on: April 23, 2018, 06:52:50 AM »
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I am trying to find links to the studies that show black people do face this type of situation at a significantly higher rate than white people (in controlled situations, mind you; not just random African Americans reporting it but studies done by criminologists)
I think you are focusing on a more relevant issue now.  When addressing the plight of black people, which is what I believe you want to argue here, and which I believe is worthwhile, arguing statistics can be valid, but it would not be valid to interpret those statistics as:  Therefore; The two men in this video are being treated unfairly because they are black. 

No one is privy to what actually happened, the media has not shown any attempt to fully research this incident.  Important information may even be intentionally left out.  Neither the article (which does little more than describe the video) or the video itself, gives as much information as people presume to know.

You get part of the story and draw a conclusion.  A neo Nazi gets part of the story and comes to an entirely different conclusion.  Both conclusions depend on filling in what is not known with assumptions which cannot explain a specific situation that contains intentional or unintentional informational blackouts. 
« Last Edit: April 23, 2018, 07:26:54 AM by SGOS »

Offline Baruch

Re: Lets talk starbucks
« Reply #38 on: April 23, 2018, 07:03:50 AM »
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Usually it's the clueless nature of customers in general who think you govern every aspect of the retail environment. I got a long list of why I hate customers, but a better sum up is Sergeant Ducky on youtube, he went through what I did.

Irish or Scottish accent ... I think Irish.  Anyway, I love English accents, anything other than American.

Stupid Customers In Retail #1 - Retail Problems ... pretty enlightening.  Maybe all customers should be certified before they are allowed to shop?  No, I don't mean that ... certified!

๐“Žก๐“Žก๐“‡ฐ
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Offline Shiranu

Re: Lets talk starbucks
« Reply #39 on: April 23, 2018, 08:51:09 AM »
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Or hit a nerve more accurately each day. Good, my skills improving

Being toxic is hardly a skill worth developing. Nor is making up more and more ridiculous "positions" just for shock value.

I'm sorry you think that struck a nerve; it was more like watching a flat earther opening his mouth. It's not hurtful, it's just sad.
I've Got Love, Fuck Your Money.

"Intellectualization creates a gap or lack of rapport between you and your life. You may think about things so much that you get into the state where you are eating the menu instead of the dinner." -Alan Watts

Offline Munch

Re: Lets talk starbucks
« Reply #40 on: April 23, 2018, 10:48:50 AM »
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Being toxic is hardly a skill worth developing. Nor is making up more and more ridiculous "positions" just for shock value.

I'm sorry you think that struck a nerve; it was more like watching a flat earther opening his mouth. It's not hurtful, it's just sad.

its only toxic to you because you don't want your biases and political indoctrination challenged. That's where denial and pessimism comes in.

And given how much of a social justice narrative you spin most days its funny seeing you accuse others of having a deluded outlook.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2018, 10:53:28 AM by Munch »

Re: Lets talk starbucks
« Reply #41 on: April 23, 2018, 10:58:06 AM »
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its only toxic to you because you don't want your biases and political indoctrination challenged. That's where denial and pessimism comes in.

And given how much of a social justice narrative you spin most days its funny seeing you accuse others of having a deluded outlook.

Challenging "biases and political indoctrination" happens by putting forth well-reasoned, fact-based, intellectual points of view, not by citing tabloids and YouTube videos made by antisocial basement-dwelling redditors.
"To live is the rarest thing in the world. Most people exist, that is all." --Oscar Wilde

Offline Munch

Re: Lets talk starbucks
« Reply #42 on: April 23, 2018, 12:57:54 PM »
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Challenging "biases and political indoctrination" happens by putting forth well-reasoned, fact-based, intellectual points of view, not by citing tabloids and YouTube videos made by antisocial basement-dwelling redditors.

and yet if the videos themselves do challenge said biases, and do create that cognitive dissonance within said individuals, they would challenge it regardless, or deny it. Seen that so many times on these forums.

Political indoctrination on these pages are as bad as religious ones.

Offline Baruch

Re: Lets talk starbucks
« Reply #43 on: April 23, 2018, 12:59:03 PM »
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and yet if the videos themselves do challenge said biases, and do create that cognitive dissonance within said individuals, they would challenge it regardless, or deny it. Seen that so many times on these forums.

Political indoctrination on these pages are as bad as religious ones.

IngSoc!
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Offline Shiranu

Re: Lets talk starbucks
« Reply #44 on: April 23, 2018, 01:07:18 PM »
Quote
its only toxic to you because you don't want your biases and political indoctrination challenged.

Here's the thing; I don't believe that it would be offensive to do this in the Middle East or Asia at a Starbucks. You aren't challenging any position I hold, you are just using some off-the-shelf insult that no one here even remotely resembles.

You have people who seem to literally know zero people of an opposite view point in the real world preaching to you about how we are when they are frankly about as non-qualified to do so as you can get. And I am more than happy to admit I use to watch the same type of videos and read the same type of articles on the left, but I grew out of that.

The fact that you hold a different political or social opinion than mine does not make you "the enemy" to me, the only thing that I really feel like opposing you on nowadays is when you are purposefully using ignorance and misinformation to spread toxicity and distrust of a different group. That's why I put you and several others on ignore and only skim yall's posts now, because it had reached a point where neither of us were actually discussing topics but rather than mudslinging back and forth... and I don't feel like, given the media posters like you and Gilgamesh consume that will change anytime soon.

It's been a long while since you've said anything that has actually challenged my world view, and I'm not going to consume such negativity on the off-chance it might pay off by making me see something different. I'm not interested in that anymore, I've put up with it for several years now on topics like race, sexuality, gender issues, religion and have seen things only continue to get worse and worse and the insults and negativity from (generally your side, though I will admit I engaged in it quite a bit before) get worse and worse.

So I'm more than happy to point out where you are sharing blatantly false information, and call out your negativity, but the pretense of debate and discussion is long dead and gone.
I've Got Love, Fuck Your Money.

"Intellectualization creates a gap or lack of rapport between you and your life. You may think about things so much that you get into the state where you are eating the menu instead of the dinner." -Alan Watts

 

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