Author Topic: Lets talk starbucks  (Read 1858 times)

Online Munch

Lets talk starbucks
« on: April 22, 2018, 08:47:25 AM »
I'm not sure if this effects stores across other parts of the world, but on may 29 starbucks will be closing all its stores across america, to push in a racial bias education to those working at stores.

This comes in response to what happened in philadelphia at one of its chains, when 2 black men were asked to leave the store after using the bathroom and not paying for thing, kindly being asked by management to leave, refusing, and then refusing to leave when asked by police when called. They weren't pressed charges.

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The ones who kicked up a fuss at the starbucks, who didn't know what was happening, made the most protest, assuming this was police whaling on them because they were black.

So now, Starbucks is going to push for a racial bias training day, because you know, every starbucks employee could be racist and despite the company losing millions, this is more important apparently.

Think the best response to this came from here.

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Its funny, in my last job, it was a simple case that in the contract you signed to work at the store, it had the rule of just not ever using racial, demeaning, sexist or any kind of negative derogatory words upon starting your job there, and that was it, if anyone was caught doing so, they were disciplined or fired, it was that fucking simple.

I mean obviously the absurdity of these two guys fucking about with the staff, manager and police prompting them being arrested for not buying something in a store, makes me wonder if this would ever be a story if they were white, it probably wouldn't even make the news. 
« Last Edit: April 22, 2018, 08:51:26 AM by Munch »

Offline SGOS

Re: Lets talk starbucks
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2018, 09:43:38 AM »
I'm not sure of the order of events, but I heard Starbucks was closing for racial training before I heard about the black men being kicked out.  I'm not sure if the events are actually connected or if telling them to leave was racially motivated.  The media hasn't specifically made that claim.  The actual facts of the story, as reported, is that they were asked to leave because they weren't buying anything, and that's not much to report on.  The assumption that it was racially motivated has to be read into the story, and it will be by many. 

Starbucks has been good about letting people sit and use their macs in their establishment, but there is an assumption that customers will reciprocate the gesture and buy a cup of coffee, which from my observations, seems to be the actual etiquette involved.  There is no sign on the wall, explaining the etiquette because it's assumed.

If two white guys were asked to leave, the report would be taken on face value and assumed that they were just hanging out and not buying anything.  But with two black men, the story potentially screams racism and that sounds like a story.

It's an odd situation in that Starbucks for as long as they have been in business, have gone out of their way to present a PC image, with PC propaganda on their products about building schools in undeveloped coffee growing countries, and using recycled paper in their cups.  It's the last place I would expect to see criticized by the left.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2018, 01:34:27 PM by SGOS »

Online Munch

Re: Lets talk starbucks
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2018, 09:50:10 AM »
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Quote
Days after two black men were arrested at a Starbucks store in Philadelphia, the company announced a drastic response.

At the end of May, Starbucks stores across the US will close en masse and 175,000 employees will undergo racial bias training, a programme developed by progressive equality organizations.

Offline SGOS

Re: Lets talk starbucks
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2018, 10:14:34 AM »
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Yeah, I probably didn't hear the events in chronological order and didn't make the connection.

Online Munch

Re: Lets talk starbucks
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2018, 11:16:21 AM »
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Yeah, I probably didn't hear the events in chronological order and didn't make the connection.

I've only really put it all together myself recently.

Theres more on from this, like how the police who arrested him, one who was black himself, had to make an apology because of the complaints.

Offline Baruch

Re: Lets talk starbucks
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2018, 11:19:21 AM »
Commercial marketing (branding) and political marketing (branding) ... who gets branded ... the customers/voters aka sheeple.

PC wouldn't happen, unless money was involved.  Organizations, public and private, have no soul.

If even one person had a chip on the shoulder during the incident ... barista, customer, cop ... then bad things happen.  Don't have a chip (attitude).  Don't get chipped (yeah, you progressives can't wait to be tagged like cattle).
שלום

Re: Lets talk starbucks
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2018, 02:42:54 PM »
I watched the video until she admitted the reason she was writing was because she didn't like that Starbucks was willing to lose money to address white guilt. I didn't want to sit through her explanation of implicit bias. I have no interest in this culture war anymore because every argument on both sides has been recycled ad nauseam. The only aspect of this story that interests me is whether Starbuck's strategy will protect their brand. I don't drink coffee so I have no bias for or against Starbucks. As Baruch pointed out, this is all about branding.
“You are the sky. Everything else – it’s just the weather.”

― Pema Chödrön

Online Shiranu

Re: Lets talk starbucks
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2018, 05:05:31 PM »
Quote
If two white guys were asked to leave, the report would be taken on face value and assumed that they were just hanging out and not buying anything.  But with two black men, the story potentially screams racism and that sounds like a story.

I think that if kinda defeats your whole point. The thing is, white people AREN'T arrested for refusing to leave Starbucks, because no one calls the cops on two white guys who's only "crime" was to ask to use the restroom.

If someone asks me to randomly leave their store while giving me no reason, like fuck I am leaving. The thing is having light skin that doesn't happen to me. I don't walk into a store and people instantly assume I am a criminal. Terrorist? Okay, possibly, but criminal? Nah.
"I can’t move on, I can’t relax. ’Cause when you're gone... panic attacks." - Elohim

"Letting go means to come to the realization that some people are a part of your history, but not a part of your destiny" - Steve Maraboli

Online Mermaid

Re: Lets talk starbucks
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2018, 05:10:48 PM »
The point of a coffee shop is to hang around. They have free wifi. People hang out there all the time. They have business meetings, meet up with friends or groups, they study there, etc. It's designed for that very thing. Why were these young men asked to leave after being there for a total of I think three minutes without buying coffee?
We are tied to the ocean. And when we go back to the sea, whether it is to sail or to watch - we are going back from whence we came.

John F. Kennedy

Offline SGOS

Re: Lets talk starbucks
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2018, 05:55:32 PM »
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The thing is, white people AREN'T arrested for refusing to leave Starbucks, because no one calls the cops on two white guys
How do you know this?

Quote
If someone asks me to randomly leave their store while giving me no reason, like fuck I am leaving.
Suppose you were given a reason as they were in this case?  You might be different than me.  I'd be embarrassed, but I would understand and I would leave.

Quote
I don't walk into a store and people instantly assume I am a criminal.
I didn't hear anything about the presumption of criminality in this case.  I believe trespassing was used by the cops, but I don't know if they were actually charged with it.  And the whole thing was resolved without violence.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2018, 05:57:18 PM by SGOS »

Online Munch

Re: Lets talk starbucks
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2018, 06:02:00 PM »
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I think that if kinda defeats your whole point. The thing is, white people AREN'T arrested for refusing to leave Starbucks, because no one calls the cops on two white guys who's only "crime" was to ask to use the restroom.

If someone asks me to randomly leave their store while giving me no reason, like fuck I am leaving. The thing is having light skin that doesn't happen to me. I don't walk into a store and people instantly assume I am a criminal. Terrorist? Okay, possibly, but criminal? Nah.

Any business has the right to kick someone out of a store if they are just loitering. The store I worked out, our supervisors and managers told groups of teens who loitered outside the store to clear off several times, its the right of those who own the establishment. And no, they weren't black.

Quote
The point of a coffee shop is to hang around. They have free wifi. People hang out there all the time. They have business meetings, meet up with friends or groups, they study there, etc. It's designed for that very thing. Why were these young men asked to leave after being there for a total of I think three minutes without buying coffee?

No, the point of a coffee shop is that its a business and needs trade to survive. I use the free wifi in starbucks or other coffee shops in my town, but only if I'm going to buy from them. Just using up its free wifi without buying something from them is just fucking rude, and you are not entitled to it just because you think you are.

Online Mermaid

Re: Lets talk starbucks
« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2018, 06:14:12 PM »
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Any business has the right to kick someone out of a store if they are just loitering. The store I worked out, our supervisors and managers told groups of teens who loitered outside the store to clear off several times, its the right of those who own the establishment. And no, they weren't black.

No, the point of a coffee shop is that its a business and needs trade to survive. I use the free wifi in starbucks or other coffee shops in my town, but only if I'm going to buy from them. Just using up its free wifi without buying something from them is just fucking rude, and you are not entitled to it just because you think you are.
Do you live in America?
We are tied to the ocean. And when we go back to the sea, whether it is to sail or to watch - we are going back from whence we came.

John F. Kennedy

Online Shiranu

Re: Lets talk starbucks
« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2018, 06:20:38 PM »
Quote
How do you know this?

Maybe by the fact that you never hear of white people being arrested for being in Starbucks.

Just a guess.

On the other hand, black people being asked to leave or having cops called on them at stores for no reason because they were "assumed" to be shoplifters or criminals are a dime-a-dozen story.

Quote
Suppose you were given a reason as they were in this case?  You might be different than me.  I'd be embarrassed, but I would understand and I would leave.

What reason were they asked to leave? That they didn't place an order in three minutes? First off, that's not a "reason", that's a crock of shit. Second, no I wouldn't leave because that's a a crock of shit. If you want to "understand" being discriminated against, have fun with that. I dealt with that shit enough when I was younger to not tolerate it as an adult.

Quote
I didn't hear anything about the presumption of criminality in this case.  I believe trespassing was used by the cops, but I don't know if they were actually charged with it.  And the whole thing was resolved without violence.

You know damn well what I meant.

The hoops white people will go through to not admit that racism still directly influences their society...


(And no, I don't think that has even remotely anything to do with their "whiteness" and is not a statement against white people but rather majority-vs-minority dynamics. When you have certain privileges your entire life because of your majority status, you are simply unaware of certain disadvantages and realities other people face. There is nothing wrong with that either, so long as you remain open minded... but the natural instinct is to reject that other people might experience reality different than you, and that's when it becomes an issue.)
« Last Edit: April 22, 2018, 06:27:47 PM by Shiranu »
"I can’t move on, I can’t relax. ’Cause when you're gone... panic attacks." - Elohim

"Letting go means to come to the realization that some people are a part of your history, but not a part of your destiny" - Steve Maraboli

Re: Lets talk starbucks
« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2018, 06:33:23 PM »
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No, the point of a coffee shop is that its a business and needs trade to survive. I use the free wifi in starbucks or other coffee shops in my town, but only if I'm going to buy from them. Just using up its free wifi without buying something from them is just fucking rude, and you are not entitled to it just because you think you are.
Have to disagree with you on this one, Munch.  A traditional coffee shop is designed to be a place to loiter in.  Loiter, though, is a poor word; they are designed to keep you hanging around for a good bit of time.  Why?  It is common practice in US businesses to give stuff away to make it easier for patrons to purchase more.  Starbucks likes to present itself as a friendly place to be--and to keep one there for awhile.  There is no pressure to purchase and then leave.  They want you to have some coffee, use your computer, have a meeting, study, or just sit.  That gives you a good feeling about Starbucks and builds good will which will translate into more business.  I also grew up knowing that  'beat' coffee shops were all of the above, but also a place for creativity--songs, books and poetry flowed through them.  And that happened by encouraging hanging out.

Grocery stores offer 'loss leaders' to get one into the store with the knowledge that the typical customer will buy much more than the loss leaders; but one doesn't have to.  Book stores encourage hanging out, reading their material, drinking coffee, or just talking with one another.  They have the same reasons as Starbucks.  In other words, there are types of business that thrive on hanging out.  Starbucks  is of that type.  If the patrons of Starbucks see that Starbucks does not encourage hanging out, they will stop going themselves and will tell their friends not to bother going either.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline SGOS

Re: Lets talk starbucks
« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2018, 06:41:24 PM »
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You know damn well what I meant.
Actually, I thought you meant that assumed criminality of black people was the issue.

Quote
The hoops white people will go through to not admit that racism still directly influences their society...
Some do of course, now more than ever with the recent resurgence.  I just didn't read that into this particular situation.

As a side note, I applaud Starbuck's response.  Yeah, it's probably about public image and how it affects their business, but I still think it's worthwhile issue to educate people about.

 

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