Author Topic: Left/Right dichotomy is fake  (Read 3292 times)

Re: Left/Right dichotomy is fake
« Reply #30 on: April 15, 2018, 08:34:46 PM »
Political designations of Left/Right are messy, the labels keep changing, but I think there is enough psychological and social science research to support there are value differences between liberals and conservatives these differences are cross-cultural. Certain people are more open to novel experiences or appreciate order or are more group oriented. These preferences express themselves in political beliefs.

I've been called a bleeding-heart liberal, mainly because in comparison to people around me I am liberal, but don't label myself as liberal anymore because not all my beliefs are progressive and Left/Right politics does seem to perpetuate dichotomy. If someone wants my position on an issue I will give it, although often I don't have enough information to form an opinion. I typically focus on individual rights but I'm no libertarian, I believe we need government to protect individuals from the tyranny of the masses, excesses of capitalism and other problems. I tend to be more solution-focused than ideologically consistent. I don't believe in the Golden Age of the right or the Utopia of the left. I also don't think "people are fucked up." Everyone is trying to get their needs met and sometimes we do fucked up things and sometimes we do great things. Individually and collectively we are all works in progress.
“You are the sky. Everything else – it’s just the weather.”

― Pema Chödrön

Offline Baruch

Re: Left/Right dichotomy is fake
« Reply #31 on: April 15, 2018, 08:47:34 PM »
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No, not really.  Those definitions still work.  I guess that makes me a traditional liberal.  :cool:

So, are you assembling a guillotine, mon cheri?
𐎍𐎜𐎜𐎟𐎌𐎀𐎍𐎎𐎀𐎀𐎚𐎀𐎟𐎍𐎜𐎜𐎟𐎁𐎀𐎍𐎉𐎀𐎀𐎚𐎀
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Re: Left/Right dichotomy is fake
« Reply #32 on: April 15, 2018, 11:04:55 PM »
I think the main problem with modern politics is that we still see holders of political positions as our rulers rather than our servants.

The two main problems with people in political positions are the issues of wealth and power.   It is not a good thing for a country to have a political leader that can gain two much of both.

We've solved (for the most part) the problem of too much power.   Leaders generally need a quorum of consent in order to act.  But at the moment, democracies don't have a way to prevent someone holding political power from using it to unfairly gain a disproportionate amount of wealth.

Winner of WitchSabrinas Best Advice Award 2012


We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real
tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. -Plato

Online Hydra009

Re: Left/Right dichotomy is fake
« Reply #33 on: April 16, 2018, 12:25:26 AM »
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democracies don't have a way to prevent someone holding political power from using it to unfairly gain a disproportionate amount of wealth.
Or vice versa.

Offline Baruch

Re: Left/Right dichotomy is fake
« Reply #34 on: April 16, 2018, 01:08:00 AM »
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Or vice versa.

That is why we need Plato's Uber-menschen ... aka Guardians.  Greek Mentats.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2018, 01:09:44 AM by Baruch »
𐎍𐎜𐎜𐎟𐎌𐎀𐎍𐎎𐎀𐎀𐎚𐎀𐎟𐎍𐎜𐎜𐎟𐎁𐎀𐎍𐎉𐎀𐎀𐎚𐎀
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Re: Left/Right dichotomy is fake
« Reply #35 on: April 16, 2018, 03:40:09 AM »
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That is why we need Plato's Uber-menschen ... aka Guardians.  Greek Mentats.
Orange mentats are good in combat and grape mentats are good with merchants--I haven't found any greek mentats yet.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline Baruch

Re: Left/Right dichotomy is fake
« Reply #36 on: April 16, 2018, 06:58:26 AM »
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Orange mentats are good in combat and grape mentats are good with merchants--I haven't found any greek mentats yet.

You have to eat lots of the dolmades ... stuffed grape leaves.  Then wash that down with retsina (pine resin flavored white wine from Athens). Get the grape, coming and going.  Είστε αυτό που τρώτε
𐎍𐎜𐎜𐎟𐎌𐎀𐎍𐎎𐎀𐎀𐎚𐎀𐎟𐎍𐎜𐎜𐎟𐎁𐎀𐎍𐎉𐎀𐎀𐎚𐎀
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline SGOS

Re: Left/Right dichotomy is fake
« Reply #37 on: April 17, 2018, 06:59:36 AM »
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I think the main problem with modern politics is that we still see holders of political positions as our rulers rather than our servants.
They are servants, servants of the wealthy, paid by the wealthy, with money from the middle class: 

"Jeeves, bring me another bill, one that says I get all the money." 

"Right away, Sir."

Offline Baruch

Re: Left/Right dichotomy is fake
« Reply #38 on: April 17, 2018, 12:53:11 PM »
Everyone has always been the bitch of the chieftain ... from tribal days until now.  Just be glad you aren't a cute pool boy ;-)
𐎍𐎜𐎜𐎟𐎌𐎀𐎍𐎎𐎀𐎀𐎚𐎀𐎟𐎍𐎜𐎜𐎟𐎁𐎀𐎍𐎉𐎀𐎀𐎚𐎀
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Re: Left/Right dichotomy is fake
« Reply #39 on: April 17, 2018, 01:15:58 PM »
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They are servants, servants of the wealthy, paid by the wealthy, with money from the middle class: 

"Jeeves, bring me another bill, one that says I get all the money." 

"Right away, Sir."

I've never understood the american idea of lobbying.   It seems like sanctioned bribery.
Winner of WitchSabrinas Best Advice Award 2012


We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real
tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. -Plato

Offline SGOS

Re: Left/Right dichotomy is fake
« Reply #40 on: April 17, 2018, 01:20:54 PM »
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I've never understood the american idea of lobbying.   It seems like sanctioned bribery.
Seems like?  That is exactly what it is. It was legalized by the people who take the bribes.  Go figure that one out.

Online Hydra009

Re: Left/Right dichotomy is fake
« Reply #41 on: April 17, 2018, 02:00:44 PM »
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I've never understood the american idea of lobbying.   It seems like sanctioned bribery.
If you think that's bad, check out our courts.  You can pay a guy to work to get you a lesser sentence from the judge.  Just don't mistakenly pay the judge directly!

Offline Cavebear

Re: Left/Right dichotomy is fake
« Reply #42 on: April 19, 2018, 02:25:25 AM »
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I broke ranks with my parents who were Republicans, possibly because my grandparents were Republicans.  But politics played a small role in my parent's lives, and they didn't rail on about how bad the Democrats were.  I called myself a Republican, but I was really apolitical until I started paying attention and decided the Republicans were against my values.  But this was at a time before the political make up of our leadership had shifted so far to the right, and back then, Republicans and Democrats agreed with each other, or at least compromised on things.  Democrats today seem like the Republicans of my youth when acrimony didn't rule political decisions the way they do today.

My parents were both conservative Republicans (though my mother changed her views in old age - and my father became moreso to balance things out I suppose).  I am not.  Nor are any of my siblings.  Conservative Republicans will go the way of the Whigs someday.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: Left/Right dichotomy is fake
« Reply #43 on: April 19, 2018, 01:01:00 PM »
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My parents were both conservative Republicans (though my mother changed her views in old age - and my father became moreso to balance things out I suppose).  I am not.  Nor are any of my siblings.  Conservative Republicans will go the way of the Whigs someday.

What, a cure for male pattern baldness?
𐎍𐎜𐎜𐎟𐎌𐎀𐎍𐎎𐎀𐎀𐎚𐎀𐎟𐎍𐎜𐎜𐎟𐎁𐎀𐎍𐎉𐎀𐎀𐎚𐎀
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Re: Left/Right dichotomy is fake
« Reply #44 on: April 19, 2018, 01:38:01 PM »
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If you think that's bad, check out our courts.  You can pay a guy to work to get you a lesser sentence from the judge.  Just don't mistakenly pay the judge directly!

And here I was thinking that a courts job was to allow people to argue their cases and meet out justice impartially!

How naive of me!
Winner of WitchSabrinas Best Advice Award 2012


We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real
tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. -Plato

 

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