Author Topic: The only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian. True or false?  (Read 960 times)

Re: The only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian. True or false?
« Reply #15 on: April 08, 2018, 03:11:08 PM »
Can we have it in a nutshell what the difference is between Gnostic Christianity and regular Christianity?  Specifically, does Gnostic Christianity still posit a deity of some sort and that Jeshua bar-Joseph either was, or was a part of, that deity?  Is there still a belief in a soul or some other transcendent part of consciousness, an afterlife, any sort of eternal punishment?

Provisionally, though, I'm going to say false, but for this reason: a good Christian is, in my view, a good person who attributes their own innate goodness to the god they believe in rather than giving themselves their own due for doing good.  It's of no relevance to their goodness what flavor of Christianity they follow—or any other religion, or lack thereof.  Certainly I can't stop someone from attributing their goodness to their Christianity, but in my mind what makes them good is within themselves, not imposed from without.

Thanks for the well thought out post.

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"Specifically, does Gnostic Christianity still posit a deity of some sort and that Jeshua bar-Joseph either was, or was a part of, that deity?

That first clip shows how we see Jesus as an archetypal good man only and not as a deity. We use Jesus as mantra or meditation guide to enhance our focus. gaining access to your pineal gland and activating your right brain is the key to Gnosis.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9QI3nlinYQ

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To the rest.

You and I think along the same lines but I see local churches as useful to society in the tribal and fellowship way and that is why I call myself a Gnostic Christian and not just the usual agnostic.

I want to change the mainstream religions to the more atheist church type of organizations and not really destroy them altogether. That would go a long way to ending the homophobia and misogyny propagated by the mainstream religions.

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"Is there still a belief in a soul or some other transcendent part of consciousness, an afterlife, any sort of eternal punishment?"

Soul, I define as life force.

We do not believe in eternal punishment as we do not see God as having to condemn his own creations. We fully believe in evolution and not a creator God. That is why we used to say creation from Yahweh was flawed, when speaking of the supernatural that we do not believe in, and why we wrote things like what follows.

 Gnostic Christian Jesus said, "If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.
If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.
Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.
[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.
But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

These days, I use this.

Candide.
"It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end.”

We are always at the best end, at all points in time. I call what I see evolving perfection. Always moving in time to a more perfect state, using U.S. English.

As to "transcendent part of consciousness".

You will not believe what I say unless you give some credence to what this link shows of a cosmic consciousness. If you do, then I will show and tell.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qM6yLngNnDY

In a nutshell, it posits that our magnetic shield is acting as a cosmic consciousness. If he was not a University prof and getting consistent results, I would likely not show his work.
 
A hint to my position is that I think I found what he did but without his machine. If you cannot give telepathy any credence then this topic dies here and you can concentrate on the rest.

Regards
DL




« Last Edit: April 08, 2018, 03:28:08 PM by Greatest I am »

Re: The only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian. True or false?
« Reply #16 on: April 08, 2018, 03:30:13 PM »
I think more of a Christ thing, than a Jesus thing.

Wise, but unfortunately, most think of those terms to mean the same thing and do not care that they are not.

They foolishly see Christ as a name.

Regards
DL

Re: The only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian. True or false?
« Reply #17 on: April 08, 2018, 03:34:00 PM »
I kind of think Gnostic Christianity IS Christianity.  Gnostic means "knowing".  Isn't that what Christians think they do?  They have their book, they have their Pope and other god-interpreters who say they speak to JESUS every day.  What else is there?

If we were the same, then they would not have used their Inquisitions on us.

Mind you, that is logic and reason talking and I don't know if we should apply logic and reason to Christianity, or any religions that say they know anything without giving a logic trail to it the way Gnostic Christians do.

Regards
DL

Re: The only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian. True or false?
« Reply #18 on: April 08, 2018, 03:41:48 PM »
The original Christians were "gnostic" and I've even heard Saul/Paul called a gnostic Christian.

Yes and no.

The jury is still out for me as I think that Christianity usurped the scriptures of the Gnostic Christians of that day, when they called themselves Chrestians.

Most would not agree with you though without more evidence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=rAt-PAkgqls

Regards
DL


Re: The only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian. True or false?
« Reply #19 on: April 08, 2018, 03:41:55 PM »
What is this about the pineal gland? Do you believe that Descartes myth that the pineal gland was what connected the soul with the body? And what do you mean by activating the right brain?
"Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

Re: The only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian. True or false?
« Reply #20 on: April 08, 2018, 03:46:28 PM »
The only good christian is a dead christian.  Ummm...........wait...........wait..........I think I'm confusing that with this saying--the only good indian is a dead indian.  I guess it is doesn't really compute one way or the other.

I don't think it matters which is the 'good' one.  There is no 'good' christian in that none are accurate or based on facts or evidence.  Both are fictions.  Either hypothesis leads to control of the masses and are just as destructive.

For the revealed religions, perhaps, but that third link shows that that was not the case for the Cathars.

Seeking wisdom and knowledge and how to be the best possible human is hardly the same as following a genocidal son murdering prick of a God.

Strange that you cannot see that both creeds shown are not morally equivalent.

Perhaps you should join a religion because your secular system is sure not educating you on morals much.

Regards
DL
 
 

Re: The only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian. True or false?
« Reply #21 on: April 08, 2018, 03:48:44 PM »
Maybe.  But I think Paul was a gnostic.  And his writings are all about controlling others.

What makes you think he was a Gnostic Christian?

We have no supernatural beliefs and he did if memory serves.

Regards
DL

Re: The only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian. True or false?
« Reply #22 on: April 08, 2018, 04:00:22 PM »
What is this about the pineal gland? Do you believe that Descartes myth that the pineal gland was what connected the soul with the body? And what do you mean by activating the right brain?

Soul to me just means life force and I do not connect it to the physical as directly as you put it.

https://www.ted.com/talks/iain_mcgilchrist_the_divided_brain

Just so you do not just discard the whole brain idea, consider the Egyptian eye and Michelangelo's creation painting. Both of those are representation of our right hemisphere. God sit's on a brain background in the creation painting.

Most look at it and see God creating his concept in Adam.

I see it as Adam reaching up to his own mind to find his own Father Concept.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Father_complex

Regards
DL

Re: The only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian. True or false?
« Reply #23 on: April 08, 2018, 04:19:42 PM »
What makes you think he was a Gnostic Christian?

We have no supernatural beliefs and he did if memory serves.

Regards
DL
Thanks for the reply.  I seem to remember than Paul did not believe in a corporal Jesus, but a spiritual one; one that lived in heaven.  And I seem to recall that a couple of authors that wrote about Paul labeled him such.  In any case, his Jesus does not match up all that well with the other NT authors.  As for you brand of 'Gnostic', I am not all that familiar with it---and I must confess that I did not view any of your clips.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Re: The only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian. True or false?
« Reply #24 on: April 08, 2018, 04:59:24 PM »
For the revealed religions, perhaps, but that third link shows that that was not the case for the Cathars.

Seeking wisdom and knowledge and how to be the best possible human is hardly the same as following a genocidal son murdering prick of a God.

Strange that you cannot see that both creeds shown are not morally equivalent.

Perhaps you should join a religion because your secular system is sure not educating you on morals much.

Regards
DL
Thanks for this reply.  I have to say, I do love this line--Seeking wisdom and knowledge and how to be the best possible human is hardly the same as following a genocidal son murdering prick of a God.  I so very much agree and came to that conclusion fairly early in life.  And I don't see both creeds as being morally equivalent.  Just because they are both fictional does not mean they are the same from any vantage point other than being fictional.  I do see all organized religions as being fictional and all as being destructive.  But I don't include all 'spiritual' movements or organizations as being religions--I don't know that Wicca, for example, his highly organized or has a hierarchical, rigid official set of offices; Wicca then could be labeled a religion that is not destructive.  So, what I think is really destructive in religions is a hierarchical, rigid official set of offices.  Plus, I don't see any religion as being moral or ethical.

I have attempted to join christianity several times, longing for an outside force to be 'the' force of the universe both physical and emotional (spiritual).  My last and strongest attempt was through Unity, the denomination started by Charles and Myrtle Fillmore.  That attempt lasted a good 10 years and was not a total waste in the end.  The social aspect was good.  The Fillmore philosophy has much  I still use and agree with.  As it turned out, even that loose organization was still too much organization for me.  For me, the search for knowledge and how to be the best human I can be took me away from any and every religion.  My set of 'morals' (what a loaded word and would take many, many posts to figure out what those are, where they come from and what is good about them.)  works for me.  My morals work for me--but when they don't (yes, I do know when I compromise my own set of morals or ethics) I have to figure out how to repair that and set things as straight as I can.   

'I am that I am' is used with great regularity in Unity--'I am' is the Christ Mind.  It is that mind we use when we are at our best when interfacing with the rest of the universe.  For Unity students the Christ Mind and the Christ Consciousness is what we strive for.  I still find much of that teaching to be of a personal benefit in that it is a tool I can use to help me to a better state of mind, of emotion and leads to a 'better' me.  None of this has anything to do with with a real or actual Jesus.  Anyway, Greatest, I don't know that much of what your personal thoughts are or how you came to them and I imagine there are  a number of different beliefs that label themselves as 'Gnostic'.   So, to call your particular belief system as being fictional is a bit hasty; it may be, but I don't really know that to be accurate.  So, I guess when you say I use a 'secular system' to determine my morals, you are accurate--for there can be no other system since there is nothing within this universe that is not secular.  And I guess morals are much like beauty--in the eye of the beholder.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline Baruch

Re: The only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian. True or false?
« Reply #25 on: April 08, 2018, 07:42:18 PM »
Wise, but unfortunately, most think of those terms to mean the same thing and do not care that they are not.

They foolishly see Christ as a name.

Regards
DL

G-d is always a verb, regardless of which verb you use.  A name is a noun.
שלום

Re: The only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian. True or false?
« Reply #26 on: April 09, 2018, 12:05:23 AM »
Mike your time at Unity sounds very much like  Budhist seeking nirvana.
not expecting god to show up, but if he does we’re going to have to beat the prick up.

Re: The only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian. True or false?
« Reply #27 on: April 09, 2018, 12:10:16 AM »
Mike your time at Unity sounds very much like  Budhist seeking nirvana.
I have been told that the Fillmore's teachings were kind of close of Buddhist teachings.  I don't know enough about core Buddhist teachings to know for sure.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Re: The only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian. True or false?
« Reply #28 on: April 09, 2018, 12:35:09 AM »
G-d is always a verb, regardless of which verb you use.  A name is a noun.

But you say that people are demi-gods. That's a noun.
"Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

Offline Baruch

Re: The only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian. True or false?
« Reply #29 on: April 09, 2018, 05:24:30 AM »
But you say that people are demi-gods. That's a noun.

Language is tricky like that ... a verb can be used as an adjective or a noun aka verbal adjective or verbal noun.  But what I am saying is, it's more like "dynamic, not static ... becoming, not being".  Using what a person does, as a description, is using that as a verbal adjective ... and using what a person does as a label, is using that as a verbal noun.  Using an adjective or noun, instead of a verb, is a shorthand, just as a pronoun is shorthand for a noun.

Forrest Gump: That day, for no particular reason, I decided to go for a little run. So I ran to the end of the road. And when I got there, I thought maybe I'd run to the end of the town. And when I got there, I thought maybe I'd just run across Greenbow County. And I figured, since run this far, maybe I'd just run across the great state of Alabama. And that's what I did. I ran clear across Alabama. For no particular reason I just kept on goin'. I ran clear to the ocean. And when I got there, I figured, since I'd gone this far, I might as well turn around, just keep on goin'. When I got to another ocean, I figured, since I'd gone this far, I might as well just turn back, keep right on goin'.

Verb ... "Run! Forrest!! Run!!!"
Verbal adjective ... "Forrest loves to run"
Verbal noun ... "Forrest went for a run"

Identical word, used three different ways, all less informative than the first quote.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2018, 05:51:52 AM by Baruch »
שלום

 

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